[DeTomaso] selling a car on the internet question

Mon Aug 26 15:15:12 EDT 2013

I know we are talking about personal transactions *NOT Commercial ones.* I
was sharing my experience where dealing with questionable buyers would come
up more frequently then they would for an individual who may only sell one
car to a person from  a distant location in his life time.  Many of the
suggestions I made could easily be adopted by an individual and when I sell
a car personally to a person from out of state (which I have done on three
occasions ) I always take these type of precautions.  Another solution I
did not mention would be especially appropriate when trying to sell a car
like a Pantera and that is to contract with one of the Pantera vendors who
sell cars on consignment for their owners. The first thought is that this
is going to cost you money but in reality selling your car through a
Panteravendor may actually get you a higher price then if you sold it
yourself,
and even if you net a little less (like selling it at auction ,which is
another way to ensure you actually get paid) either way is far less
expensive then losing your car and receiving NO money at all .And when you
use a Pantera vendor or an auction they assume the risk not you. You are
paid by the business that sold your car not by the actual buyer.
 Although  their are lots of scams out there and new ones coming out every
day the vast majority of cars sold in the U.S. and Canada go off with out a
hitch. If they didn't the car business would cease to exist as well as most
other forms of interstate commerce. The bottom line is to proceed with
additional caution when dealing with a buyer who is not local and if you
have a bad feeling don't do the deal. Only do business on your terms and
don't be swayed by greed or fear of loss (of the sale). Most
scammerssucceed by playing to some extent on peoples greed ( that's
why they almost
always agree to the full asking price without  haggling ) Anyway if you do
sell a car under these circumstances I wish you the best of luck.
Boyd

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Doug Scott <doug at pickbbs.com> wrote:

> While I agree with the majority of what you say, I have to add that the
> original topic was not commercially related.  I was referring to private
> sales, no company intervention.  I am also in Canada, where we cannot use
> any bills over a $50 in just about any store due to the quality of
> counterfeit hundreds out there.  The new type of currency (“plastic” bills
> http://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/bank-note-series/polymer/) we are
> getting now will probably fix the counterfeit issues with our hundred
> dollar bills, and that may also reduce the risk to sellers getting that
> cash.****
>
> So far I have heard of many instances of fake certified cheques, fake
> cashier cheques, fake bank transfers, and counterfeit bills.  Not sure
> about the wire transfers.  In every case, the recipient is the one that
> loses out.  Really sucks when that cashier’s cheque comes back as fake 28
> days later, and you are on the hook for the money.  Banks cannot even
> verify the items the day you present them.  For whatever reason, it takes
> nearly a month before you can relax.  At least when the bank teller accepts
> the cash it is immediately safe for you.****
>
> ** **
>
> *doug*
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Boyd Casey [mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 26, 2013 11:15 AM
> *To:* Doug Scott
>
> *Cc:* detomaso at poca.com
> *Subject:* Re: [DeTomaso] selling a car on the internet question****
>
> ** **
>
> Since this subject has remained as a topic of interest and importance I
> thought I would add my two cents. Hopefully it will be worth more then that
> to someone.****
>
> I don't think you need a bank to confirm cash. You do need to get your
> bank involved if you are being paid with any other form of payment (tellers
> check, Cashiers check, Money order, wire transfer. Know your customer ,  in
> my 25+ years in the auto mobile business we would release a car to a local
> customer but we would never release the Title , MSO , etc. until all the
> funds were in the house ( which means all payments no matter what form were
> cleared) This would normally take at least 21 business days for out of
> state instruments of payment. We would also thoroughly check a persons ID,
> their credit report and their story. Most of our customers were from within
> a few hundred miles, if and when we dealt with a customer from out of state
> we would do an "interview" with the customer to find out where he worked
> and for how long and  see if he had a legitimate story for having the money
> to pay cash for the car. (for the purposes of this post cash refers to any
> payment not involving financing. Ca$h will refer to Cash money,
> greenbacks, simoleans, etc.  As a dealer we had an obligation to report
> Ca$h transactions of $10,000 or more and we were supposed to report  any
> circumstances that seemed suspicious ( money that may have come from drug
> dealing or other criminal activity or if we thought the transaction was
> being used to facilitate money laundering.This was before so many
> transactions were being done on the Internet. It is difficult ( but not
> impossible to export a car without the title so we were more concerned with
> holding on to the ownership documents then the  car because we felt we
> could get the car back and legally that would be much easier to facilitate
> if we still owned it on paper. Many of these things are much more difficult
> for an individual to implement then for a large dealership. The bottom line
> is never turn over any title or other ownership docs until you have the Ca
> $h. Since all forms of negotiable instruments can be forged make it the
> buyers responsibility to convert the Instruments to Ca$h. deal with well
> known banks that have branches in both your and the buyers home state. If
> the buyer has an account at Wells Fargo ( for instance) he can get a
> cashiers check made out to himself and Ca$h it with the bank in your
> presence at a branch near your home when he is picking up the car. This
> makes the bank responsible for confirming his identification and hopefully
> someone at his local branch will know him and with Skype and other forms of
> communication that allow for face to face contact across thousands of miles
> you can be more confident that you are actually dealing with the person
> that the buyer claims to be. It's a major PIA but if you are selling you
> car nationally or internationally these are issues you have to deal
> with.Stay away from Craigslist! From a purely statistical standpoint they
> have such a substantial number of scams it's just not worth the risk.If
> your selling an expensive car and looking for a buyer that can afford to
> buy it , you should be able to afford to pay for an advertisement. If
> something doesn't feel right or smell right trust your instincts and back
> off the deal. Don't worry about hurting a scammers feelings. Tell them you
> are finalizing the deal at your local police department to confirm every
> ones ID and to have them check the ownership paper work ( you can say this
> is for every ones mutual protection) If they don't like that idea is a safe
> bet they have something to hide. ( In Rhode Island the State police have to
>  do  an inspection before you can title and register a late model car. They
> check the Vin number and the hidden Vin numbers to make sure it's not a
> stolen car. They used to always warn people "Caveat Emptor" which I'm sure
> you all know means "let the buyer beware " Now you have to include "Caveat
> Venditor " which is "let the seller beware"****
>
> ** **
>
> Boyd****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Doug Scott <doug at pickbbs.com> wrote:****
>
> These days the only way to accept payment is at the bank, in cash with the
> bank verifying the that cash is legit.  Any other form has been forged
> already.  And no matter which way the payment is forged, the seller is
> always the victim.   It sucks that it has come to this, but you can blame
> the advancement in technology coupled with the regression of morals and the
> economy.
>
> doug****
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On
> Behalf
> Of Jeff Detrich
> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 12:54 PM
> To: LaurieFerrari at aol.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] selling a car on the internet question
>
> Why pay the PayPal fees?
>
> This is scary!
>
> Cashier Check Fraud
>
> http://www.occ.gov/news-issuances/consumer-advisories/2007/consumer-advisory
> -2007-1.html
>
> >From Craig's list
> http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams
>
> >From eBay  How to verify a cashiers check
>
> http://www.ebay.com/gds/How-to-tell-if-a-CASHIER-apos-S-CHECK-IS-FAKE-in-30-
> seconds-/10000000003567893/g.html
>
> PayPal problems
> http://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/jan/27/is-paypal-safe-protection
>
>
> Jeff
> 6559
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:28 PM, <LaurieFerrari at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > The posts on this topic are interesting and helpful.  I  recently had
> > a '96 Eldorado for sale on Craigslist and got a phone text  message
> > (not a direct
> > call) from a Texas number. The person wanted the car  and my pay pal
> info.
> > Didn't negotiate at all which seemed odd.   Said they were sending their
> > shipper to pick it up.  I said I didn't have  a pay pal acct. and they
> > told me how easy it was to sign up and sent  me a link.  I was
> > skeptical as I've never done this before and asked a  friend who is a
> > car dealer.  He said it
> > was definitely a scam.   I'm curious what type scam this could have been?
> > >From what I'm reading, I  suppose if I'd deliver the car before
> > >receiving
> > payment, that'd be the  problem?  Can there be any problem with pay
> > pal or one canceling a  payment?
> > Laur.
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------
> > -------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Wait!  What's the date today?  No, it's not April Fools  Day!  Ok the
> > answer is "NO!"  Do NOT send the pink slip with only 50%  of the cash
> > received!
> > He owns the car, for half price at that  point.
> >
> > Options:
> > 1. He send wire you all the money., Then you send him  the pink slip.
> > Then his carrier picks up the car.
> > You  might provide a signed bill of sale and photocopy of the signed
> > pink slip with  change of ownership info filled out to give him piece
> > of mindwhen he sends the  funds, but don't release the pink until all
> > funds are received and verified  good.
> > 2. He can hire an agent or friend to hand deliver the cashier's check
> > in exchange for the pink slip, so you get your cash and he gets the
> > title at the  same time.
> >
> > 3. Use an escrow service. He pays for the fees since it's for  his
> > protection.
> >
> >
> > Never release the title until you have "good" funds  - verified
> > cashiers check, wire transfer, cash,  etc.
> >
> > Cheers!
> > Garth
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