[DeTomaso] selling a car on the internet question

Mon Aug 26 11:51:17 EDT 2013

While I agree with the majority of what you say, I have to add that the
original topic was not commercially related.  I was referring to private
sales, no company intervention.  I am also in Canada, where we cannot use
any bills over a $50 in just about any store due to the quality of
counterfeit hundreds out there.  The new type of currency ("plastic" bills
http://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/bank-note-series/polymer/) we are
getting now will probably fix the counterfeit issues with our hundred dollar
bills, and that may also reduce the risk to sellers getting that cash.

So far I have heard of many instances of fake certified cheques, fake
cashier cheques, fake bank transfers, and counterfeit bills.  Not sure about
the wire transfers.  In every case, the recipient is the one that loses out.
Really sucks when that cashier's cheque comes back as fake 28 days later,
and you are on the hook for the money.  Banks cannot even verify the items
the day you present them.  For whatever reason, it takes nearly a month
before you can relax.  At least when the bank teller accepts the cash it is
immediately safe for you.

doug

From: Boyd Casey [mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 11:15 AM
To: Doug Scott
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] selling a car on the internet question

Since this subject has remained as a topic of interest and importance I
thought I would add my two cents. Hopefully it will be worth more then that
to someone.

I don't think you need a bank to confirm cash. You do need to get your bank
involved if you are being paid with any other form of payment (tellers
check, Cashiers check, Money order, wire transfer. Know your customer ,  in
my 25+ years in the auto mobile business we would release a car to a local
customer but we would never release the Title , MSO , etc. until all the
funds were in the house ( which means all payments no matter what form were
cleared) This would normally take at least 21 business days for out of state
instruments of payment. We would also thoroughly check a persons ID, their
credit report and their story. Most of our customers were from within a few
hundred miles, if and when we dealt with a customer from out of state we
would do an "interview" with the customer to find out where he worked and
for how long and  see if he had a legitimate story for having the money to
pay cash for the car. (for the purposes of this post cash refers to any
payment not involving financing. Ca$h will refer to Cash money, greenbacks,
simoleans, etc.  As a dealer we had an obligation to report Ca$h
transactions of $10,000 or more and we were supposed to report  any
circumstances that seemed suspicious ( money that may have come from drug
dealing or other criminal activity or if we thought the transaction was
being used to facilitate money laundering.This was before so many
transactions were being done on the Internet. It is difficult ( but not
impossible to export a car without the title so we were more concerned with
holding on to the ownership documents then the  car because we felt we could
get the car back and legally that would be much easier to facilitate if we
still owned it on paper. Many of these things are much more difficult for an
individual to implement then for a large dealership. The bottom line is
never turn over any title or other ownership docs until you have the Ca$h.
Since all forms of negotiable instruments can be forged make it the buyers
responsibility to convert the Instruments to Ca$h. deal with well known
banks that have branches in both your and the buyers home state. If the
buyer has an account at Wells Fargo ( for instance) he can get a cashiers
check made out to himself and Ca$h it with the bank in your presence at a
branch near your home when he is picking up the car. This makes the bank
responsible for confirming his identification and hopefully someone at his
local branch will know him and with Skype and other forms of communication
that allow for face to face contact across thousands of miles you can be
more confident that you are actually dealing with the person that the buyer
claims to be. It's a major PIA but if you are selling you car nationally or
internationally these are issues you have to deal with.Stay away from
Craigslist! From a purely statistical standpoint they have such a
substantial number of scams it's just not worth the risk.If your selling an
expensive car and looking for a buyer that can afford to buy it , you should
be able to afford to pay for an advertisement. If something doesn't feel
right or smell right trust your instincts and back off the deal. Don't worry
about hurting a scammers feelings. Tell them you are finalizing the deal at
your local police department to confirm every ones ID and to have them check
the ownership paper work ( you can say this is for every ones mutual
protection) If they don't like that idea is a safe bet they have something
to hide. ( In Rhode Island the State police have to  do  an inspection
before you can title and register a late model car. They check the Vin
number and the hidden Vin numbers to make sure it's not a stolen car. They
used to always warn people "Caveat Emptor" which I'm sure you all know means
"let the buyer beware " Now you have to include "Caveat Venditor " which is
"let the seller beware"

Boyd

On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Doug Scott <doug at pickbbs.com
<mailto:doug at pickbbs.com> > wrote:

These days the only way to accept payment is at the bank, in cash with the
bank verifying the that cash is legit.  Any other form has been forged
already.  And no matter which way the payment is forged, the seller is
always the victim.   It sucks that it has come to this, but you can blame
the advancement in technology coupled with the regression of morals and the
economy.

doug

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com <mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com>
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com <mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Jeff Detrich
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 12:54 PM
To: LaurieFerrari at aol.com <mailto:LaurieFerrari at aol.com> 
Cc: detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com> 
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] selling a car on the internet question

Why pay the PayPal fees?

This is scary!

Cashier Check Fraud
http://www.occ.gov/news-issuances/consumer-advisories/2007/consumer-advisory
<http://www.occ.gov/news-issuances/consumer-advisories/2007/consumer-advisor
y-2007-1.html> 
-2007-1.html

>From Craig's list
http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams

>From eBay  How to verify a cashiers check
http://www.ebay.com/gds/How-to-tell-if-a-CASHIER-apos-S-CHECK-IS-FAKE-in-30-
<http://www.ebay.com/gds/How-to-tell-if-a-CASHIER-apos-S-CHECK-IS-FAKE-in-30
-seconds-/10000000003567893/g.html> 
seconds-/10000000003567893/g.html

PayPal problems
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/jan/27/is-paypal-safe-protection

Jeff
6559

On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:28 PM, <LaurieFerrari at aol.com
<mailto:LaurieFerrari at aol.com> > wrote:

> The posts on this topic are interesting and helpful.  I  recently had
> a '96 Eldorado for sale on Craigslist and got a phone text  message
> (not a direct
> call) from a Texas number. The person wanted the car  and my pay pal info.
> Didn't negotiate at all which seemed odd.   Said they were sending their
> shipper to pick it up.  I said I didn't have  a pay pal acct. and they
> told me how easy it was to sign up and sent  me a link.  I was
> skeptical as I've never done this before and asked a  friend who is a
> car dealer.  He said it
> was definitely a scam.   I'm curious what type scam this could have been?
> >From what I'm reading, I  suppose if I'd deliver the car before
> >receiving
> payment, that'd be the  problem?  Can there be any problem with pay
> pal or one canceling a  payment?
> Laur.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> Wait!  What's the date today?  No, it's not April Fools  Day!  Ok the
> answer is "NO!"  Do NOT send the pink slip with only 50%  of the cash
> received!
> He owns the car, for half price at that  point.
>
> Options:
> 1. He send wire you all the money., Then you send him  the pink slip.
> Then his carrier picks up the car.
> You  might provide a signed bill of sale and photocopy of the signed
> pink slip with  change of ownership info filled out to give him piece
> of mindwhen he sends the  funds, but don't release the pink until all
> funds are received and verified  good.
> 2. He can hire an agent or friend to hand deliver the cashier's check
> in exchange for the pink slip, so you get your cash and he gets the
> title at the  same time.
>
> 3. Use an escrow service. He pays for the fees since it's for  his
> protection.
>
>
> Never release the title until you have "good" funds  - verified
> cashiers check, wire transfer, cash,  etc.
>
> Cheers!
> Garth
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