[DeTomaso] chassis stiffeners - opinions

Tue Apr 30 21:34:48 EDT 2013

Lynn,

Here's what I thought about the Hall chassis kit in 1999…. back when the list was young.
:-)

Nothing has really changed in my opinion… I like the kit and think it does wonders.
Especially that small upper brace just above the ZF.

Hope this help.

Regards,
Kirby

I've seen several comments on the Hall Pantera 'chassis rigidity kit' 
lately and thought I'd add my two cents... This is sort of long, but 
I hope it's complete enough that others considering the kit know what 
they're getting into. Mike Trusty took pictures of the kit and they 
can be seen at:
http://www.fmcc.se/guson (Note!!! This link no longer works…)

Tom Upton here in Houston put the kit in his car and Mike Trusty in 
Arkansas added the kit prior to the last Silver State. Their comments 
got me considering the kit myself and I took the plunge a couple of 
weeks ago. I used the fact the I could sell my existing spreader bar 
and removable crossmember to Don Franck as justification!  :-)))))))))

I got the alignment checked last Saturday morning, so here's my take 
on the kit.

Cost
Hall had a 'special' on the kit running at the time. Supposedly, if 
you buy each part of the kit separately, it'll run over $1100. I paid 
$850 plus $20 shipping.

The kit consists of:

Lower rear brace
A rectangular part that fits between the subframe underneath the 
transaxle. It has diagonal braces in each corner, a turnbuckle at the 
rear and two turnbuckles at the front. This replaces your removable 
crossmember and is held in place by the lower A-arm bolts.

Upper rear braces
This is two parts. The top piece is the standard adjustable engine 
bay brace that Hall has sold in the past. There is a smaller bar that 
fits more to the rear and lower down near the top of the transaxle. 
It braces the upper A-arm rear mounting point.

Lower front brace
A counterpart to the rear. Fits between the lower A-arm mounts.

Upper rear brace
Installs in the front trunk compartment in line with the upper A-arm mounts.

The kit seems well made. It is nicely painted and coated with what 
seems to be a teflon of some type?

Installation
The lower rear brace is simply installed, but it takes the most time. 
You have to remove the sway bar brackets on the A-arms, take off the 
nuts on the lower A-arm mounts and then pull the lower A-arms out far 
enough to pull the bolts through the chassis rails. Put the brace in 
place and then reinstall the A-arm bolts. Tighten the turnbuckles to 
snug up the brace and it's done. In my case, the rear transaxle case 
bolts hit on the rear brace diagonals and I had to take my grinder to 
them to get some clearance.

The larger upper rear brace just replaces your standard engine bay 
brace. Jack up the car, remove the old brace, install the new one and 
tighten the turnbuckle until the bar extends as far as it can without 
bending the wheelhouses. Tighten the bolts and you're done.
The lower brace needs to be plug welded in. In my case, the bar was 
too long even when it was as small as possible. I had to unscrew it 
to take it apart and then grind some material off the ends of each 
bar so that the jam nuts on the turnbuckle would contact them 
'later', thus make the entire bar shorter.
And yes, the rear trunk fits back in with _no problem_.

The lower front is supposed to be plug welded, but since I don't have 
a welder at home, I drilled a hole on each side and bolted it in so 
that I could drive the car to the welder without the thing falling 
out on the ground somewhere along the way. :-))) It's simple to 
install. Just stick the brace between the lower chassis 'rails' in 
the front and tighten the turnbuckles to snug it up.

The upper front is a triangular piece. The front part is bolted 
(three bolts, so you gotta' drill some holes) to the inside of the 
trunk bay up front near the radiator and has a back up plate on the 
outside. The other parts need to be plug welded and of course my 
carpet needs fixing now...  The left side attaches right under the 
brake master cylinder and since I didn't want to take all my brake 
lines loose, we could only manage to plug weld three of the four 
points. I don't see this as a problem.

Contrary to some comments I've seen, you lose _very little_ trunk 
space when this is installed. It fits right over my stereo amplifier 
and I put all the things I normally keep up front back in the trunk 
afterwards. That includes car cover, jack, torque wrench for lug 
nuts, a quart of oil, small toolkit, 12VDC air compressor, etc.
It's true that you won't be able to put your spare up there anymore, 
but since the spare doesn't fit over my Wilwoods...

So, I had all the components in place ready to be welded except for 
the smaller upper rear bar which I put in place on arriving at the 
welder.

When I finished, I realized I had a couple of one inch tubes left 
over and couldn't figure out where they went. I called Hall and he 
said they were an afterthought and they are now welding them 
diagonally between the two upper rear spreader bars. I have not done 
this yet...

Does it work, you're all asking?

I have not been on the track with it yet. My experience so far is 
driving to work and back (where I know every damned dip and pothole 
along the way) and some 'spirited' driving on some backroads. The car 
is completely different! The handling has improved noticeably. In 
general, the car is 'tighter' and more responsive. I definitely like 
the change.

Before, when I drove through a dip in the road that was at an angle, 
you could feel the car 'walk' through the dip. Now, it drives 
straight through and you just feel the suspension working. In fact, 
my front tires now rub on the fenders more than they ever have when 
going through a dip. I think this is good. It makes me believe the 
suspension is working more and the chassis less. One place you'll 
first notice the change in the car is when you drive in and out of 
your driveway. The car doesn't flex nearly as much.

I have 700lb rear springs and with the two braces installed, the rear 
suspension is almost too stiff now! I find it amazing that part of 
the suspension was the wheelhouses moving in and out....

Let's see... What else....?
Oh, when cranking on the turnbuckles, you can do some _serious_ 
distorting to the chassis! A couple of half turns with a wrench once 
the sides of the braces are contacting the frame and you'll start to 
hear the car creaking and popping. Tom Upton was told by Hall to make 
them as tight as he could. And Tom ended up with some seriously 
modified camber afterwards. I feel that they should be snugged up to 
where the brace is tight and no more. After all, you don't want your 
chassis stressed in directions it is not supposed to be or ever has 
been. The kit is supposed to make the chassis more rigid, not break 
it in half... :-)))))))))

I recommend getting the car four wheel aligned again after 
installation. Even though I didn't tighten the braces that much, the 
alignment had changed.

In summary, I feel the price is a little high for the kit, but if you 
all buy them, maybe Hall will drop the price? ;-)
The kit works as advertised and when speaking to Hall, I said I was 
amazed that the car had stiffened up so much when only modifying each 
end. His reply was that he thought the center of the car was pretty 
strong and had two examples of cars that had rolled over. The back 
and front of the cars were destroyed, but the cabin was intact.

I see very little downside to the kit other than the price and some 
very minor space loss in the front trunk. The upside is a much 
improved Pantera that drives even better than before. With the extra 
caster that I added a few weeks ago, my car is an absolute pleasure 
to drive. Now for some new tires....

FWIW in Houston,

Kirby

On Apr 30, 2013, at 6:04 PM, Lynn Wall <lwall67 at gmail.com> wrote:

> All,
> 
> 
> 
> While at the fun rally I discussed the various chassis stiffening systems
> available.  
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, there is the one that is visible in both the trunk and the engine
> bay (I think several vendors sell these) and then I am told there is a
> system sold by Larry Stock that fits between the frame rails.
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have experience with these and, if so, would you be will to
> share your experiences and opinions with me?
> 
> 
> 
> Lastly are there other systems out there that should be considered?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> 
> 
> Lynn
> 
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