[DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system

Wed Apr 3 10:07:01 EDT 2013

<< I've never had to raise the back either.>>

I have often gotten some pleasure from doing just that. Now when it starts
to expel air I generally step aside.

Larry (better now) - Cleveland

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf
Of shawkins777 at comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 8:07 PM
To: Kirby Schrader
Cc: detomaso at POCA.com list
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system

I've never had to raise the back either. 

Steve 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirby Schrader" <kirby.schrader at gmail.com> 
To: "detomaso at POCA.com list" <detomaso at poca.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 7:02:05 PM 
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system 

Since owning a Pantera the first time in 1983, I have never jacked the car
up in the back to get the air out of the system
. 
Never had a problem. 

Oh, well
. 

FWIW, 
Kirby 

On Apr 2, 2013, at 5:11 PM, michael at michaelshortt.com
<michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote: 

> WTF? Does anybody think a "cold air" bubbble would sink in hot water? 
> 
> There is only one proven way to get the air out the system, jacking up the

> rear. It is this very procedure or lack thereof that gave our cars an 
> overheating reputation that we still fight to this day. 
> 
> There is no need to reinvent this procedure. 
> 
> I have a 393 stroker with a Hall 5 core lay forward brass radiator, 
> siliconce hoses and aluminum and stainless hard pipes with a dual electric

> fan on the back side of the radiator. I run a 1/3 100% antifreeze and 2/3 
> distiled water with one 16oz bottle of water wetter coolant mix. I live in

> Savannah, Georgia where the summer temps are often 95-100 degrees with 90%

> humidity. 
> After proper filling and bleeding, the only way my car would overheat
would 
> be to disconnect the fan and sit stil while reving the engine past 3,000 
> rpms. It is all I can do to hit 180 and in more temporate weather 170 
> degrees. 
> Aside from my coolant mix ( which is the same ratio used for light
aircraft 
> ) I would say the single biggest improve came as a result of having the 
> radiator cleaned/boiled. 
> 
> I would encourage you to have your radiator cleaned, 40 years worth of tap

> water with city additives like lime, calcium and flourides do produce a 
> white build up which can retrict smooth and speedy waterflow if not block 
> off entire rows. 
> 
> Then use a proper mix, bleed it as described and witness the difference
for 
> yourself. 
> 
> Michael Shortt 
> On Apr 2, 2013 5:31 PM, "Jack Donahue" <demongusta at me.com> wrote: 
> 
>> Something to think about: Warm air rises, so I would think air in the 
>> system would have a tendency to RISE. With the rear in the air, and 
>> bleeding the radiator, aren't we "pushing" the water ahead of the air?
Why 
>> not raise the front? Years ago I had an "explosion" in the engine bay as
I 
>> was putting down a city street. A giant white plume of "white". I thought

>> the engine blew. When I pulled over, lifted the deck lid and looked, it
was 
>> devoid of any oil. Must have been steam. I called a mechanic that had 
>> worked on the car after Don Nicholson built and installed the motor, and
he 
>> said "it burped". My question was, "how often can I expect this baby to 
>> burp?" never got an answer, and it has not happened since. Obviously, the

>> pressure exceeded the cap's capacity, and it worked perfectly. Another 
>> thing: why not use a STANT (or a similar one) cooling system pump, pump
up 
>> the system, and then raise the front of the car, putting the radiator at 
>> the high point, and maybe waiting a few minutes for the bubbles to rise.
I 
>> guess this will be batted around forever. I do, however, like John 
>> Taphorn's article on cooling, and I think an oil temp gauge is
imperative, 
>> even though I don't have one yet. I have Gary Hall's radiator and
overflow 
>> caps, Fluidyne, SS tubes, 1250 sucker-fans, etc. and my blood pressure is

>> synchronous with the water temp gauge. Kirby Schrader told me in an email

>> that the only way his car will overheat in 100 degree weather (at an 
>> intersection) is to shut of one of the cooling fans.Sounds like a dream 
>> (goal). 
>> On Apr 1, 2013, at 11:43 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson wrote: 
>> 
>>> Mike, 
>>> 
>>> Air will not collect like that in the engine as long as there's enough 
>>> water in the system to allow the water pump to push water into the 
>>> block. As long as the pump has water supply to fill the block and the 
>>> thermostat neck high enough to run over into the tube going away from 
>>> the engine no air pocket should be present in the engine. There will be 
>>> two air pockets. One in the radiator, the other in the swirl tank if you

>>> have one. If no swirl tank is present, the rear air pocket will be in 
>>> the thermostat outlet tube if the system is plumbed in a reasonably 
>>> conventional way. 
>>> 
>>> Filling an empty system with the rear of the car jacked up is however a 
>>> way to ensure that the engine contains a certain amount of air. Hence my

>>> surprise when I over and over hear that it's the best way to fill the 
>>> system. 
>>> 
>>> Tomas 
>>> 
>>> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> 
>>> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com [MikeLDrew at aol.com] 
>>> Sent: 2/4/2013 1:34:54 AM 
>>> To: guson at home.se 
>>> Cc: detomaso at poca.com 
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In a message dated 4/1/13 13 39 2, guson at home.se writes: 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I beg to differ. As soon as you start driving the car it will 
>>> see G-forces much greater than those induced by jacking or parking on a 
>>> slope. There is no possibility that air would be trapped in the straight

>>> under car tubes after that. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> No. Instead, the air that WAS trapped in the pipes before you 
>>> started driving, will now be trapped in your engine! And you're 
>>> driving! 
>>> 
>>> And overheating. 
>>> 
>>> The point of the exercise is to purge the system of air (as much as 
>>> possible) *before* you start driving it. 
>>> 
>>> There was a significant incident that happened many years ago to a new 
>>> Pantera owner here in PCNC land, named Walter Villere. He bought his 
>>> Pantera from a police auction, a rather scruffy but solid Euro GTS, and 
>>> only paid $13K or something like that. One side was beat up because it 
>>> had been parked in a fenced lot right against the fence, and the wind 
>>> had whipped the fence and battered the side of the car. But the damage 
>>> was all rather trivial. 
>>> 
>>> Walter knew a lot about cars and nothing about Panteras. First thing he 
>>> did when he got it home was to change all the fluids--water and oil. He 
>>> drained all the coolant, then just filled it up and topped it off until 
>>> the tank was full, on level ground. He then closed the cap, and took 
>>> off across the Richmond bridge, which started right outside his office. 
>>> 
>>> Walter was/is a maniac. Great guy, but a maniac. He wanted to see how 
>>> fast it would go, and the bridge is a great place because there's no 
>>> place for cops to hide. Traffic was light so he just ran it up to 
>>> redline in 5th gear. Having a great time, eyes on the road of course, 
>>> so he failed to notice that because he hadn't properly filled the 
>>> cooling system, the temp gauge was pegged. 
>>> 
>>> BOOM!!!!!! The engine let go like Krakatoa! 
>>> 
>>> Only AFTER that, and a new engine from Hall Pantera, did he learn the 
>>> importance of the proper filling/bleeding procedure.... 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> I agree that you want to bleed the radiator and top up at the 
>>> rear filler but the jacking is a waste of time. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> It doesn't cost anything, doesn't hurt anything, and not doing it has

>>> led to at least minor overheating problems in the past. And the manual 
>>> directs you to do it. 
>>> 
>>> So why WOULDN'T you do it? 
>>> 
>>> Mike 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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