[DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system
Larry - Ohio Time Corp
larry at ohiotimecorp.com
Wed Apr 3 10:07:01 EDT 2013
<< I've never had to raise the back either.>>
I have often gotten some pleasure from doing just that. Now when it starts
to expel air I generally step aside.
Larry (better now) - Cleveland
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf
Of shawkins777 at comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 8:07 PM
To: Kirby Schrader
Cc: detomaso at POCA.com list
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system
I've never had to raise the back either.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirby Schrader" <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
To: "detomaso at POCA.com list" <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 7:02:05 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system
Since owning a Pantera the first time in 1983, I have never jacked the car
up in the back to get the air out of the system
.
Never had a problem.
Oh, well
.
FWIW,
Kirby
On Apr 2, 2013, at 5:11 PM, michael at michaelshortt.com
<michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
> WTF? Does anybody think a "cold air" bubbble would sink in hot water?
>
> There is only one proven way to get the air out the system, jacking up the
> rear. It is this very procedure or lack thereof that gave our cars an
> overheating reputation that we still fight to this day.
>
> There is no need to reinvent this procedure.
>
> I have a 393 stroker with a Hall 5 core lay forward brass radiator,
> siliconce hoses and aluminum and stainless hard pipes with a dual electric
> fan on the back side of the radiator. I run a 1/3 100% antifreeze and 2/3
> distiled water with one 16oz bottle of water wetter coolant mix. I live in
> Savannah, Georgia where the summer temps are often 95-100 degrees with 90%
> humidity.
> After proper filling and bleeding, the only way my car would overheat
would
> be to disconnect the fan and sit stil while reving the engine past 3,000
> rpms. It is all I can do to hit 180 and in more temporate weather 170
> degrees.
> Aside from my coolant mix ( which is the same ratio used for light
aircraft
> ) I would say the single biggest improve came as a result of having the
> radiator cleaned/boiled.
>
> I would encourage you to have your radiator cleaned, 40 years worth of tap
> water with city additives like lime, calcium and flourides do produce a
> white build up which can retrict smooth and speedy waterflow if not block
> off entire rows.
>
> Then use a proper mix, bleed it as described and witness the difference
for
> yourself.
>
> Michael Shortt
> On Apr 2, 2013 5:31 PM, "Jack Donahue" <demongusta at me.com> wrote:
>
>> Something to think about: Warm air rises, so I would think air in the
>> system would have a tendency to RISE. With the rear in the air, and
>> bleeding the radiator, aren't we "pushing" the water ahead of the air?
Why
>> not raise the front? Years ago I had an "explosion" in the engine bay as
I
>> was putting down a city street. A giant white plume of "white". I thought
>> the engine blew. When I pulled over, lifted the deck lid and looked, it
was
>> devoid of any oil. Must have been steam. I called a mechanic that had
>> worked on the car after Don Nicholson built and installed the motor, and
he
>> said "it burped". My question was, "how often can I expect this baby to
>> burp?" never got an answer, and it has not happened since. Obviously, the
>> pressure exceeded the cap's capacity, and it worked perfectly. Another
>> thing: why not use a STANT (or a similar one) cooling system pump, pump
up
>> the system, and then raise the front of the car, putting the radiator at
>> the high point, and maybe waiting a few minutes for the bubbles to rise.
I
>> guess this will be batted around forever. I do, however, like John
>> Taphorn's article on cooling, and I think an oil temp gauge is
imperative,
>> even though I don't have one yet. I have Gary Hall's radiator and
overflow
>> caps, Fluidyne, SS tubes, 1250 sucker-fans, etc. and my blood pressure is
>> synchronous with the water temp gauge. Kirby Schrader told me in an email
>> that the only way his car will overheat in 100 degree weather (at an
>> intersection) is to shut of one of the cooling fans.Sounds like a dream
>> (goal).
>> On Apr 1, 2013, at 11:43 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson wrote:
>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> Air will not collect like that in the engine as long as there's enough
>>> water in the system to allow the water pump to push water into the
>>> block. As long as the pump has water supply to fill the block and the
>>> thermostat neck high enough to run over into the tube going away from
>>> the engine no air pocket should be present in the engine. There will be
>>> two air pockets. One in the radiator, the other in the swirl tank if you
>>> have one. If no swirl tank is present, the rear air pocket will be in
>>> the thermostat outlet tube if the system is plumbed in a reasonably
>>> conventional way.
>>>
>>> Filling an empty system with the rear of the car jacked up is however a
>>> way to ensure that the engine contains a certain amount of air. Hence my
>>> surprise when I over and over hear that it's the best way to fill the
>>> system.
>>>
>>> Tomas
>>>
>>> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>>> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com [MikeLDrew at aol.com]
>>> Sent: 2/4/2013 1:34:54 AM
>>> To: guson at home.se
>>> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 4/1/13 13 39 2, guson at home.se writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I beg to differ. As soon as you start driving the car it will
>>> see G-forces much greater than those induced by jacking or parking on a
>>> slope. There is no possibility that air would be trapped in the straight
>>> under car tubes after that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> No. Instead, the air that WAS trapped in the pipes before you
>>> started driving, will now be trapped in your engine! And you're
>>> driving!
>>>
>>> And overheating.
>>>
>>> The point of the exercise is to purge the system of air (as much as
>>> possible) *before* you start driving it.
>>>
>>> There was a significant incident that happened many years ago to a new
>>> Pantera owner here in PCNC land, named Walter Villere. He bought his
>>> Pantera from a police auction, a rather scruffy but solid Euro GTS, and
>>> only paid $13K or something like that. One side was beat up because it
>>> had been parked in a fenced lot right against the fence, and the wind
>>> had whipped the fence and battered the side of the car. But the damage
>>> was all rather trivial.
>>>
>>> Walter knew a lot about cars and nothing about Panteras. First thing he
>>> did when he got it home was to change all the fluids--water and oil. He
>>> drained all the coolant, then just filled it up and topped it off until
>>> the tank was full, on level ground. He then closed the cap, and took
>>> off across the Richmond bridge, which started right outside his office.
>>>
>>> Walter was/is a maniac. Great guy, but a maniac. He wanted to see how
>>> fast it would go, and the bridge is a great place because there's no
>>> place for cops to hide. Traffic was light so he just ran it up to
>>> redline in 5th gear. Having a great time, eyes on the road of course,
>>> so he failed to notice that because he hadn't properly filled the
>>> cooling system, the temp gauge was pegged.
>>>
>>> BOOM!!!!!! The engine let go like Krakatoa!
>>>
>>> Only AFTER that, and a new engine from Hall Pantera, did he learn the
>>> importance of the proper filling/bleeding procedure....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I agree that you want to bleed the radiator and top up at the
>>> rear filler but the jacking is a waste of time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> It doesn't cost anything, doesn't hurt anything, and not doing it has
>>> led to at least minor overheating problems in the past. And the manual
>>> directs you to do it.
>>>
>>> So why WOULDN'T you do it?
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
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