[DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system

Tue Apr 2 21:41:43 EDT 2013

I have never raised the rear to release air from my system either.

But I have hiked a leg once or twice.

--
Will

On 4/2/13 8:06 PM, "shawkins777 at comcast.net" <shawkins777 at comcast.net>
wrote:

>I've never had to raise the back either.
>
>Steve 
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kirby Schrader" <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
>To: "detomaso at POCA.com list" <detomaso at poca.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 7:02:05 PM
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system
>
>
>Since owning a Pantera the first time in 1983, I have never jacked the
>car up in the back to get the air out of the systemŠ.
>Never had a problem.
>
>Oh, wellŠ. 
>
>FWIW, 
>Kirby 
>
>
>On Apr 2, 2013, at 5:11 PM, michael at michaelshortt.com
><michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> WTF? Does anybody think a "cold air" bubbble would sink in hot water?
>> 
>> There is only one proven way to get the air out the system, jacking up
>>the 
>> rear. It is this very procedure or lack thereof that gave our cars an
>> overheating reputation that we still fight to this day.
>> 
>> There is no need to reinvent this procedure.
>> 
>> I have a 393 stroker with a Hall 5 core lay forward brass radiator,
>> siliconce hoses and aluminum and stainless hard pipes with a dual
>>electric 
>> fan on the back side of the radiator. I run a 1/3 100% antifreeze and
>>2/3 
>> distiled water with one 16oz bottle of water wetter coolant mix. I live
>>in 
>> Savannah, Georgia where the summer temps are often 95-100 degrees with
>>90% 
>> humidity. 
>> After proper filling and bleeding, the only way my car would overheat
>>would 
>> be to disconnect the fan and sit stil while reving the engine past
>>3,000 
>> rpms. It is all I can do to hit 180 and in more temporate weather 170
>> degrees. 
>> Aside from my coolant mix ( which is the same ratio used for light
>>aircraft 
>> ) I would say the single biggest improve came as a result of having the
>> radiator cleaned/boiled.
>> 
>> I would encourage you to have your radiator cleaned, 40 years worth of
>>tap 
>> water with city additives like lime, calcium and flourides do produce a
>> white build up which can retrict smooth and speedy waterflow if not
>>block 
>> off entire rows.
>> 
>> Then use a proper mix, bleed it as described and witness the difference
>>for 
>> yourself. 
>> 
>> Michael Shortt 
>> On Apr 2, 2013 5:31 PM, "Jack Donahue" <demongusta at me.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Something to think about: Warm air rises, so I would think air in the
>>> system would have a tendency to RISE. With the rear in the air, and
>>> bleeding the radiator, aren't we "pushing" the water ahead of the air?
>>>Why 
>>> not raise the front? Years ago I had an "explosion" in the engine bay
>>>as I 
>>> was putting down a city street. A giant white plume of "white". I
>>>thought 
>>> the engine blew. When I pulled over, lifted the deck lid and looked,
>>>it was 
>>> devoid of any oil. Must have been steam. I called a mechanic that had
>>> worked on the car after Don Nicholson built and installed the motor,
>>>and he 
>>> said "it burped". My question was, "how often can I expect this baby
>>>to 
>>> burp?" never got an answer, and it has not happened since. Obviously,
>>>the 
>>> pressure exceeded the cap's capacity, and it worked perfectly. Another
>>> thing: why not use a STANT (or a similar one) cooling system pump,
>>>pump up 
>>> the system, and then raise the front of the car, putting the radiator
>>>at 
>>> the high point, and maybe waiting a few minutes for the bubbles to
>>>rise. I 
>>> guess this will be batted around forever. I do, however, like John
>>> Taphorn's article on cooling, and I think an oil temp gauge is
>>>imperative, 
>>> even though I don't have one yet. I have Gary Hall's radiator and
>>>overflow 
>>> caps, Fluidyne, SS tubes, 1250 sucker-fans, etc. and my blood pressure
>>>is 
>>> synchronous with the water temp gauge. Kirby Schrader told me in an
>>>email 
>>> that the only way his car will overheat in 100 degree weather (at an
>>> intersection) is to shut of one of the cooling fans.Sounds like a
>>>dream 
>>> (goal). 
>>> On Apr 1, 2013, at 11:43 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Mike, 
>>>> 
>>>> Air will not collect like that in the engine as long as there's
>>>>enough 
>>>> water in the system to allow the water pump to push water into the
>>>> block. As long as the pump has water supply to fill the block and the
>>>> thermostat neck high enough to run over into the tube going away from
>>>> the engine no air pocket should be present in the engine. There will
>>>>be 
>>>> two air pockets. One in the radiator, the other in the swirl tank if
>>>>you 
>>>> have one. If no swirl tank is present, the rear air pocket will be in
>>>> the thermostat outlet tube if the system is plumbed in a reasonably
>>>> conventional way.
>>>> 
>>>> Filling an empty system with the rear of the car jacked up is however
>>>>a 
>>>> way to ensure that the engine contains a certain amount of air. Hence
>>>>my 
>>>> surprise when I over and over hear that it's the best way to fill the
>>>> system. 
>>>> 
>>>> Tomas 
>>>> 
>>>> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>>>> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com [MikeLDrew at aol.com]
>>>> Sent: 2/4/2013 1:34:54 AM
>>>> To: guson at home.se
>>>> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> In a message dated 4/1/13 13 39 2, guson at home.se writes:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I beg to differ. As soon as you start driving the car it will
>>>> see G-forces much greater than those induced by jacking or parking on
>>>>a 
>>>> slope. There is no possibility that air would be trapped in the
>>>>straight 
>>>> under car tubes after that.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> No. Instead, the air that WAS trapped in the pipes before you
>>>> started driving, will now be trapped in your engine! And you're
>>>> driving! 
>>>> 
>>>> And overheating.
>>>> 
>>>> The point of the exercise is to purge the system of air (as much as
>>>> possible) *before* you start driving it.
>>>> 
>>>> There was a significant incident that happened many years ago to a
>>>>new 
>>>> Pantera owner here in PCNC land, named Walter Villere. He bought his
>>>> Pantera from a police auction, a rather scruffy but solid Euro GTS,
>>>>and 
>>>> only paid $13K or something like that. One side was beat up because
>>>>it 
>>>> had been parked in a fenced lot right against the fence, and the wind
>>>> had whipped the fence and battered the side of the car. But the
>>>>damage 
>>>> was all rather trivial.
>>>> 
>>>> Walter knew a lot about cars and nothing about Panteras. First thing
>>>>he 
>>>> did when he got it home was to change all the fluids--water and oil.
>>>>He 
>>>> drained all the coolant, then just filled it up and topped it off
>>>>until 
>>>> the tank was full, on level ground. He then closed the cap, and took
>>>> off across the Richmond bridge, which started right outside his
>>>>office. 
>>>> 
>>>> Walter was/is a maniac. Great guy, but a maniac. He wanted to see how
>>>> fast it would go, and the bridge is a great place because there's no
>>>> place for cops to hide. Traffic was light so he just ran it up to
>>>> redline in 5th gear. Having a great time, eyes on the road of course,
>>>> so he failed to notice that because he hadn't properly filled the
>>>> cooling system, the temp gauge was pegged.
>>>> 
>>>> BOOM!!!!!! The engine let go like Krakatoa!
>>>> 
>>>> Only AFTER that, and a new engine from Hall Pantera, did he learn the
>>>> importance of the proper filling/bleeding procedure....
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> I agree that you want to bleed the radiator and top up at the
>>>> rear filler but the jacking is a waste of time.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> It doesn't cost anything, doesn't hurt anything, and not doing it
>>>>>>>has 
>>>> led to at least minor overheating problems in the past. And the
>>>>manual 
>>>> directs you to do it.
>>>> 
>>>> So why WOULDN'T you do it?
>>>> 
>>>> Mike 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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