[DeTomaso] Dipstick photos and measurements // that's my final answer

Bill Moore Bill at incendium.com
Mon Apr 16 14:01:51 EDT 2012


O.K. With the dipstick, now then........... 
"So the engine in a Pantera sits flat" (no tilt). Square with the world. 
So is the carb now tilted and what effect would that have, just asking, here we go. 


Cheers,

Bill
Calgary

-----Original Message-----
From:	B Hower <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
Sender:	detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
Date:	Mon, 16 Apr 2012 10:30:44 
To: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>
Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dipstick photos and measurements // that's my final
	answer

I just ran a check on my '70 4V Torino intake and in appears to need a 4 degree tilt at front to level the carburetor. I then took the 5qt pan and put in 4.5 qts. I checked my 7 Banger block and found dipstick location to be 1" behind the center line of front pan mounting bolts. I then tilted the pan up in front by 4 degrees and found the level to drop in pan at that 1" location by 13/32".
 
So I now believe Ken has a valid point. If in fact the Mustang/Torino engines were mounted at a 4 degree tilt and carburetor mounting surface was then level. If in fact De Tomaso installed the engines in the Pantera level and that all De Tomaso did originally was extent  the handle of the dipstick  --  leaving the same distance from bottom of ridge to the full mark as it came in the Ford shipped engine. Then with 5 qts of oil in the engine the dipstick would read over full. This may be the reason the TSB had you shorten the stick -- it should then read full with the 5 quarts in engine.
 
My checks may not be 100 percent right on, but if none of you throw a wrench into my thoughts -------- I can go off happy as a clown.
 
I can now set up my Pantera pan on the block to see if I can double check my full mark.
Or at least after engine and it's oil pan is installed, put in known amount of oil and check dipstick calibration.
 
A special thanks goes out to Ken and to all of you for putting up with my chase.
 
Bud # 3400
 
 
--- On Mon, 4/16/12, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com> wrote:


From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dipstick photos and measurements
To: "B Hower" <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, April 16, 2012, 8:35 AM



I'm not sure what level the engine sits in the Pantera... I think it's level since most say the intake is tilted out of whack.

Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************     
http://www.racingagainstautism.com
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
On 4/16/2012 4:16 AM, B Hower wrote: 





Asa,
 
I plan on installing pans on my old Pantera block without front cover for testing my #'s. I'm going to also check my Pantera pan for how much it takes to fill to bottom of the baffle. I want to add air as needed to my Torino ( in storage ) and then check engine level. Then set old Pantera engine at that -------- or at least set 5qt pan at that angle and remeasure. Also get another Torino tube and stick to compare. Does in fact the Pantera's engine mount in the Pantera level fore and aft?
 
Bud #3400

--- On Sun, 4/15/12, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com> wrote:


From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dipstick photos and measurements
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Sunday, April 15, 2012, 10:42 PM


Ken,

You know that was like throwing a logarithmic function into an otherwise 
simple quadratic equation... don't you?  :|

DANG!
Sooooooo..... now we need to throw in the tilt of the engine.  Yes, Ken, 
I think you may have a point.  In my case... now that you've brought it 
up, I may have to check the level of the engine in the Mach I, then 
check the level of the engine in the Pantera.

Then I'll have to fabricate a fixture to tilt the test bed engine in the 
garage to the proper tilt (GW?), and rig up an oil pan with a piece of 
plexiglass in order to -really- find out the truth.

Unless of course... somebody else already has all the information.
gads!
Asa Jay
:)

Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
&  Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
http://www.racingagainstautism.com
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism


On 4/15/2012 8:16 PM, Ken Green wrote:
> Asa,   
>   
> In all other Fords with a 351c, does the engine sit nose high?  If the dip stick is in the front, they may have compensated for the tilt of the engine???  Just wondering.
>   
> Ken
>
> From: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2012 6:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dipstick photos and measurements
>
> I think you should get a stock tube and dipstick for another Ford
> product that had the 351C, like a Torino, Mustang, LTD, etc.  And do a
> comparison.
>
> That's what Bud Howard was doing (if I understand it correctly) and what
> I was planning to do here as well.  (once I get the materials together).
>
> Although I will agree the level is probably supposed to be a bit lower
> than  a half inch.  Probably more like what you have shown in your
> photos but your photos almost look too shallow.
>
> I'm thinking back to when I put the windage tray and crank scraper on my
> last rebuild.  It extended a little way down and I would think the oil
> level shouldn't be up against it, but I could be wrong.
>
> Oh... and do we know for certain your tube is proper length?
> Asa Jay
>
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> &   Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>
>
> On 4/14/2012 5:53 PM, MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> I wanted to generate both heat and light on this topic.  It seemed to me
>> that the oil level would be a fair bit more than just 1/2 inch below the
>> crankshaft throws.  So I set up my spare block, which has a stock crank
>> installed, and my spare dipstick tube, and a tape measure.  I set the forward
>> journal to its lowest position, then inserted both an unmodified 1972 (too-long)
>> dipstick, and a proper 38-inch dipstick, and set up my camera on a tripod
>> to take good photos.
>>
>> I chose to focus on the tape measure, which had the dipstick markings ever
>> so slightly out of focus.  To eliminate any confusion, I marked the
>> dipsticks with masking tape.  The bottom of the upper tape line corresponds with
>> the "Safe" marking, and the top of the lower tape line is positioned on the
>> "Add" line.
>>
>> The fluid levels are substantially less than some would have you believe.
>> This would help prevent the crank throws from splashing in the oil, while
>> still providing plenty of oil to ensure the pickup doesn't get starved.
>>
>> Photos here:
>>
>> http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=36086
>>
>> Does anybody need any other measurements/photos?  I'm about to pull the
>> crank and ship it to a Pantera owner in France, so speak now or forever hold
>> your peace. :>)
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Mike
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