[DeTomaso] Fw: Re: Pantera fall down go boo m :<(

Mon Jun 27 14:38:01 EDT 2011

PS: Note that Comp Cams list cams that are steel billet and others that are
compatible with 'standard' distributor gears.

http://www.compcams.com/Pages/402/camshaft-cores.aspx#streetroller

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 13:34, Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> Are we not losing sight of the actual problem?
>
> I've never had a distributor gear go bad in a Cleveland either. Except
> every Cleveland I've had to date had a _flat tappet cam_ in it... hydraulic
> or solid.
>
> Now, I have a Crane roller hydraulic in one 377 Cleveland engine (and the
> steel gear looks fine after 2,000 miles) and am putting together a new 377
> engine with a Comp Cams solid roller. It was recommended to use the latter
> with a bronze gear, so I shall do so and check occasionally until I see how
> it goes. I keep getting told a bronze gear should last for at least 10,000
> miles if installed correctly.
>
> Now, I am not an expert, but from what I know, the distributor gear
> 'problem' starts with roller cams. Specifically, steel billet roller cams.
> Different cam material, so distributor gears for cast cams don't like them.
>
> I have read that some cam companies are now making cast roller cams. New
> news to me, may be old news to some. I've also read that some companies are
> installing a different gear onto the billet cam thereby letting you use the
> 'old' distributor gear. Whatever the case, the manufacturer should certainly
> be telling us what to use with which cam.
>
> My take on the situation is that I will add little hole to 'shotgun' the
> distributor gear with oil (couldn't resist, Chuck) and I may even do half of
> a JT mod with his professed liking for 'connecting the front to the back
> with a hose' modification although the back oil will be coming from an
> Accusump. Either way, the idea will be to get more oil there than normal for
> the 'warm and fuzzy' feeling.
>
> Stirring it up again,
> Kirby
>
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 20:47, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Dear Tony,
>>
>>
>>                I second your assessment.  The hole is not a sniper shot
>> onto the gear interface, but rather a shotgun spray to the area-----as I
>> understand it.   Conventional wisdom is that it helps, but your cold
>> observation of the stock Clevelands running *without* the mod can't be
>> ignored.  It probably boils down to personal preference versus actual
>> knowledge of that gear interface oiling parameters.
>>
>>
>>                   Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Tony DiGiovanna
>> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 7:16 PM
>> To: 'Chance Dorsey'
>> Cc: DeTomaso at realbig.com; JDeRyke at aol.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5BDeTomaso=5D
>> Fw:_Re:=A0_Pantera_fall_down_go_boo?= m :<(
>>
>> The thought, as I understand it, is that it's close enough.  i.e. a good
>> oil
>> jet/cloud in the vicinity will help wet and cool the gear mesh.  Afterall,
>> there are motors (lawn mower motors) out there that just splash oil around
>> randomly around the case which results in sufficient oil film for a rod
>> bearing.  Whether this mod really makes a difference in a Cleve is typical
>> bench speculation afaik, but I do it to the motors I build.  I've never
>> had
>> a distributor gear problem...not conclusive cause and effect, but it makes
>> me feel good.  Small effort while the engine is apart.  On the opposing
>> side, production clevelands run for 100k+ miles without the mod, and I
>> don't
>> recall ever seeing any worn distributor gears in the stock motors I've
>> torn
>> down.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Chance Dorsey
>> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 6:33 PM
>> To: JDeRyke at aol.com; davel at emspace.com
>> Cc: DeTomaso at realbig.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fw: Re:  Pantera fall down go boom :<(
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Can someone please explain this modification to me.  This week I FINALLY
>> received a Rollmaster CS3130 for my 393C build.  So I'm at the point in
>> the
>> assembly of the motor where I need to either make this modification or
>> pass
>> on it and move on with the build.  However, looking at the layout of where
>> this galley plug is in reference to where the distributor gear is has me
>> wondering how this is supposed to work.  First take a look at this
>> picture:
>>
>> http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=32330
>>
>> Is the idea for the oil to "spray" at the gear?  If so, the oil plug
>> doesn't
>>
>> line up with the gear.  I understand that some of it may hit the shaft,
>> but
>> only to be slung off by the spinning gear.  So is one supposed to drill
>> the
>> hole at an angle in hopes of pointing the spray of oil in the right
>> direction?  Has anyone tested a .030 hole with 50 - 70 PSI of oil pressure
>> to see if it even "sprays".......OR is the oil just supposed to "dribble"
>> (I
>>
>> know such a strong word for some) down the block on the gear?  If so, what
>> would this provide that the oil return hole just to the side of the gear
>> doesn't?
>>
>> There's also the possibility that I'm completely in left field with my
>> comprehension of this  (It wouldn't be the first time)  However, this is
>> starting to sound like the "ole' oil return line" fix that has so famously
>> followed the Cleveland around for years.  I'm not saying it's wrong.....I
>> just don't understand it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Chance
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <JDeRyke at aol.com>
>> To: <davel at emspace.com>
>> Cc: <DeTomaso at realbig.com>
>> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 3:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fw: Re:  Pantera fall down go boom :<(
>>
>>
>> > In a message dated 6/24/11 10:31:26 AM, davel at emspace.com writes:
>> >
>> >> My alternative is -.... a 5/8 x 1/2" UNF internal hex plug. I should be
>> >> able to buy that in brass which would be drillable. Anyone know a
>> reason
>> >> not
>> >> to use brass in that spot?
>> >>
>> >>
>> > IMHO no problem with brass-   as long as the thread's the same and
>> there's
>> > enough material left in the internal hex drive to tighten the plug in so
>> > the
>> > plug goes in flush. Matter of fact, aluminum should work as well too.
>> Both
>> > would be much more drillable in the smaller sizes than harder steel.
>> Going
>> > too big in your spray hole simply floods the gear mesh area and might
>> > reduce
>> > the oil supply in that galley- which is a main lube channel for the
>> vital
>> > mains & rods. The bad effects might not show up until the revs are high
>> > for a
>> > long time. FWIW- J Deryke
>> > _______________________________________________
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