[DeTomaso] Fw: Re: Pantera fall down go boo m :<(

Mon Jun 27 14:34:02 EDT 2011

Are we not losing sight of the actual problem?

I've never had a distributor gear go bad in a Cleveland either. Except every
Cleveland I've had to date had a _flat tappet cam_ in it... hydraulic or
solid.

Now, I have a Crane roller hydraulic in one 377 Cleveland engine (and the
steel gear looks fine after 2,000 miles) and am putting together a new 377
engine with a Comp Cams solid roller. It was recommended to use the latter
with a bronze gear, so I shall do so and check occasionally until I see how
it goes. I keep getting told a bronze gear should last for at least 10,000
miles if installed correctly.

Now, I am not an expert, but from what I know, the distributor gear
'problem' starts with roller cams. Specifically, steel billet roller cams.
Different cam material, so distributor gears for cast cams don't like them.

I have read that some cam companies are now making cast roller cams. New
news to me, may be old news to some. I've also read that some companies are
installing a different gear onto the billet cam thereby letting you use the
'old' distributor gear. Whatever the case, the manufacturer should certainly
be telling us what to use with which cam.

My take on the situation is that I will add little hole to 'shotgun' the
distributor gear with oil (couldn't resist, Chuck) and I may even do half of
a JT mod with his professed liking for 'connecting the front to the back
with a hose' modification although the back oil will be coming from an
Accusump. Either way, the idea will be to get more oil there than normal for
the 'warm and fuzzy' feeling.

Stirring it up again,
Kirby

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 20:47, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:

> Dear Tony,
>
>
>                I second your assessment.  The hole is not a sniper shot
> onto the gear interface, but rather a shotgun spray to the area-----as I
> understand it.   Conventional wisdom is that it helps, but your cold
> observation of the stock Clevelands running *without* the mod can't be
> ignored.  It probably boils down to personal preference versus actual
> knowledge of that gear interface oiling parameters.
>
>
>                   Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> On
> Behalf Of Tony DiGiovanna
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 7:16 PM
> To: 'Chance Dorsey'
> Cc: DeTomaso at realbig.com; JDeRyke at aol.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5BDeTomaso=5D
> Fw:_Re:=A0_Pantera_fall_down_go_boo?= m :<(
>
> The thought, as I understand it, is that it's close enough.  i.e. a good
> oil
> jet/cloud in the vicinity will help wet and cool the gear mesh.  Afterall,
> there are motors (lawn mower motors) out there that just splash oil around
> randomly around the case which results in sufficient oil film for a rod
> bearing.  Whether this mod really makes a difference in a Cleve is typical
> bench speculation afaik, but I do it to the motors I build.  I've never had
> a distributor gear problem...not conclusive cause and effect, but it makes
> me feel good.  Small effort while the engine is apart.  On the opposing
> side, production clevelands run for 100k+ miles without the mod, and I
> don't
> recall ever seeing any worn distributor gears in the stock motors I've torn
> down.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> On
> Behalf Of Chance Dorsey
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 6:33 PM
> To: JDeRyke at aol.com; davel at emspace.com
> Cc: DeTomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fw: Re:  Pantera fall down go boom :<(
>
> Hi all,
>
> Can someone please explain this modification to me.  This week I FINALLY
> received a Rollmaster CS3130 for my 393C build.  So I'm at the point in the
> assembly of the motor where I need to either make this modification or pass
> on it and move on with the build.  However, looking at the layout of where
> this galley plug is in reference to where the distributor gear is has me
> wondering how this is supposed to work.  First take a look at this picture:
>
> http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=32330
>
> Is the idea for the oil to "spray" at the gear?  If so, the oil plug
> doesn't
>
> line up with the gear.  I understand that some of it may hit the shaft, but
> only to be slung off by the spinning gear.  So is one supposed to drill the
> hole at an angle in hopes of pointing the spray of oil in the right
> direction?  Has anyone tested a .030 hole with 50 - 70 PSI of oil pressure
> to see if it even "sprays".......OR is the oil just supposed to "dribble"
> (I
>
> know such a strong word for some) down the block on the gear?  If so, what
> would this provide that the oil return hole just to the side of the gear
> doesn't?
>
> There's also the possibility that I'm completely in left field with my
> comprehension of this  (It wouldn't be the first time)  However, this is
> starting to sound like the "ole' oil return line" fix that has so famously
> followed the Cleveland around for years.  I'm not saying it's wrong.....I
> just don't understand it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chance
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <JDeRyke at aol.com>
> To: <davel at emspace.com>
> Cc: <DeTomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 3:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fw: Re:  Pantera fall down go boom :<(
>
>
> > In a message dated 6/24/11 10:31:26 AM, davel at emspace.com writes:
> >
> >> My alternative is -.... a 5/8 x 1/2" UNF internal hex plug. I should be
> >> able to buy that in brass which would be drillable. Anyone know a reason
> >> not
> >> to use brass in that spot?
> >>
> >>
> > IMHO no problem with brass-   as long as the thread's the same and
> there's
> > enough material left in the internal hex drive to tighten the plug in so
> > the
> > plug goes in flush. Matter of fact, aluminum should work as well too.
> Both
> > would be much more drillable in the smaller sizes than harder steel.
> Going
> > too big in your spray hole simply floods the gear mesh area and might
> > reduce
> > the oil supply in that galley- which is a main lube channel for the vital
> > mains & rods. The bad effects might not show up until the revs are high
> > for a
> > long time. FWIW- J Deryke
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