[DeTomaso] Short Springs

Fri Jul 15 01:51:16 EDT 2011

Aha, (or Asa) I see the method in your madness....

Here's what I think I know about QA1 options for the Pantera;

1.  QA1 sells two styles of shock end a) poly bushings or b) bearing (Heim). The 'P' suffix is a poly bushing so true spacers should not really be required and fender washers should work fine to take up any small slack between the mounting tabs and poly bushing. That said a US/Imperial shock is 0.5" diameter (12.7mm) on the shock mounting hole, but the Pantera 19mm (M12) bolt has a shank diameter of 12mm, so in theory a very thin sleeve is required. The bearing ends are a 'B' suffix and machined spacers are required to mount these shocks as the heim ends are much narrower than the Pantera mounting tab width. Most vendors supply the machined spacers with a shock kit, but if you buy your shocks from Summit or other vendors a diagram of the spacer can be found on my POCA album here http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=32750 The spacer step diameter is to take up the difference between the M12 bolt diameter and the 0.5"" diameter of the shock end. To make life a lot easier on yourself you can just drill the Pantera body shock mounting tabs out to 0.5" and source an imperial bolt to replace the oem metric one. That way for the bearing end shocks its just a case of getting some thick wall 0.5" ID tube stock and cutting the right length spacers, no machining.

2. QA1 offers single and double adjustable shocks "DR" or "DDR" respectively in their Proma Star model. The model # 5855 are 17" extended and 11 5/8" compressed and these are the closest QA1 match to the original Pantera shocks in compressed and uncompressed lengths. These are designed for a 12" spring length. I have heard of some people going with the 4855 model (Larry Stock sells these for a Goose application) and these have a 15" extended length and 11 1/8" compressed length and are designed for a 10" spring. My GT5 rears have an at rest length eye to eye of 14.25" so IMO the 4855's would be too short to sufficient unloading in normal use and the damper rods would be constantly hitting the end stops.

I have the DR5885B's with a 12" spring and my spring perches are certainly not at the bottom of their adjustment, but my GT5 is set as low as I can go (tires are cracking the flares through rubbing). I currently have at least 2 inches of shock body thread above my spring perch, so I guess one could argue the use of a 10" spring if it were beneficial over the 12". I do not profess to know what effect that would have, my senses tell me that because springs are rated in the lb force required to compress them 1" that an equally rated 12" spring or 10" spring would compress by the same amount under the same weight, although I would expect a 10" spring to have lesser compressible length and reach coil bind earlier.

Now you've taken all that in, forget everything I said above with respect to part numbers as in the usual manufacturers way to reinvent themselves QA1 have recently changed all their parts numbers;

Single adjustable;
DR5885B is now DS501
DR5885P is now DS502

Double adjustable;
DDR5885B is now DD501
DDR5885P is now DD502

More info can be found at http://www.qa1.net/qa1_motorsports/drag-and-street/shocks-and-struts/custom-mount-shocks/proma-star.html and QA1 have a good customer tech support line.

PIM is selling a set of single adjustable shocks for $980 retail (PIM member pricing) and QA1's retail price lists $184.95 for shock body and $43.95 a spring ($915.60 a set of four complete), so PIM are pretty competitive. That said Summit Racing sells below QA1's msrp at $159.95 for the shock bodies and $39.95 for springs ($799.60 a set). Alternatively Chassis_Warehouse sells QA1's on Ebay for $299 a pair and $35 ea. ($668 a set). They have been know to deal for a package of four shocks and springs....

The chocie all comes down to cost differential, supporting our Pantera vendors and after sales support.

Julian

> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 21:06:09 -0700
> From: asajay at asajay.com
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Short Springs
> 
> .. and I think that is the real answer. The shock/spring combination 
> Sean obtained from PIM isn't the same as what you are running. Since 
> you aren't having any problem, I would tend to want what you have on 
> your car, and not what PIM has. Perhaps you could share you specs again 
> so Sean could see them?
> 
> Asa Jay
> 
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
> 
> 
> On 7/14/2011 9:00 PM, Julian Kift wrote:
> > No I don't, but neither do I have a problem with the springs unseating on the Pantera.
> >
> > Julian
> >
> >
> >> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 18:33:21 -0700
> >> From: asajay at asajay.com
> >> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Short Springs
> >>
> >> But do you have them on your QA1 shocks on the Pantera?
> >>
> >> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> >> & Shelley Marie
> >> Spokane, WA
> >> ******************************
> >> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> >> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> >> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7/14/2011 2:37 PM, Julian Kift wrote:
> >>> The answer is helper springs, a flat spring that has just sufficient compression to keep the main spring seated on its perch. I have them on my Intrax shocks on the Ultima.
> >>>
> >>> Here is one example I found with a quick Google search (not sure if QA1 does their own);
> >>>
> >>> http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tpc=Hyperco-Helper-Springs&form_prod_id=511&action=product
> >>>
> >>> You can also get a guide that seats the helper spring to the main coil spring, see the internal link on the above page.
> >>>
> >>> Good luck,
> >>> Julian
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: seanmundy at hotmail.com
> >>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> >>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 14:26:10 -0700
> >>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Short Springs
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyone out there have the adjustable QA1 shocks from PIM? Wondering if you have the same issue as me. Both my springs front and rear are so short that they fall off the upper spring perch when I jack up the car and the shock itself becomes fully extended. This is a pain because when lowering the car I have to get my hand in there and actually guide the spring onto the upper perch as the car drops down off the jack. Not getting my arm out and getting it stuck in there a couple times is not fun when youre alone in the garage. Imagine your arm pinned between the fender and the tire and trying to jack up the car with an extended leg!!! I also can hear the spring dropping of and slamming back onto the perch when I hit a big bump or compression while driving. This loose spring condition has caused the spring itself to come into contact with the outside of the shock body and has caused some very visible wear. If I adjust the lower spring perch up on the shock body to make up th
> > e g
> >>> ap and keep the spring in contact with the upper spring perch my total shock length is too tall. I don't like my car looking like a funny car with rear end jacked up WAY high like they did back in the 70's. Any ideas? Thanks, Sean Mundy
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