[DeTomaso] Asa's clutch nearly there.
GW
gow2 at rc-tech.net
Tue Sep 8 20:18:24 EDT 2009
It probably won't help you much but I bleed my clutches and brakes with
a vacuum pump and tank:
http://www.rc-tech.net/MGB/brakes/bleed1.jpg
http://www.rc-tech.net/MGB/brakes/bleed2.jpg
Gary
asajay at asajay.com wrote:
> No, I didn't consider that. Not sure I've got the right fittings to
> make that work well either.
>
>
>
> Quoting Art Stephens <artstephens at verizon.net>:
>
>
>> Did you try pressurizing the slave and bleeding up thru the master? That is
>> the way I did it because I didn't have the right cap to go from the master
>> to the slave.
>>
>> Art
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "We tried in vein for nearly a half hour to hook the pressure bleeder
>> to the CNC master, but we just didn't have the right fittings or
>> enough room to use the generic ones."
>>
>> I now have a stock style master and new stock slave on order. We'll
>> see what happens. I'll probably get in touch with Marino tomorrow.
>>
>> Asa Jay
>>
>> Quoting Art Stephens <artstephens at verizon.net>:
>>
>>
>>> Asa Jay,
>>> I remember that during one of my misadventures in clutch bleeding we
>>> jacked up one end of the car and managed to get more air out of the
>>> master. On another occasion, after a miserable/unsuccessful attempt at
>>> two man bleeding, (one pumping the pedal), I broke out my Phoenix
>>> bleeder. We pressurized the system from the slave back to the master,
>>> it worked slicker than owl shit!
>>>
>>> Art
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>
>>> To: "De Tomaso List" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:46 PM
>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Asa's clutch nearly there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> After taking data from a lot of sources, I took out Mr. Beefy spring and
>>>> replaced it with a much milder spring I had laying around from an
>>>> automatic transmission valve body kit, that was never used. This made
>>>> the action of the slave much more pronounced and I was able to get
>>>> things adjusted according to SOBill's procedure. Yea! But I still
>>>> can't get total disengagement. So I thought it's just an adjustment at
>>>> this point, but I was wrong.
>>>>
>>>> I decided to totally remove the -external- return spring and stop
>>>> monkeying with springs fighting and who knows how much return on the
>>>> piston. This allowed the release bearing to gently ride against the
>>>> pressure plate fingers, which I can deal with for some troubleshooting.
>>>> With the system bled of air, the clutch action is just barely, but not
>>>> quite enough, to stop the trans at full throw of the system. I can get
>>>> it into any forward gear because of syncros. But I can't get it into
>>>> reverse. With the pedal to the floor, I can barely get a .010 feeler
>>>> gauge between the flywheel and the disc. This is regardless of one
>>>> pedal push, or a rapid series of pedal pushes.
>>>>
>>>> So. First thing tomorrow, I'm ordering a new master and a new slave
>>>> (long throw most likely), and we'll try again next weekend.
>>>>
>>>> Asa Jay
>>>>
>>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>>
>>>> & Shelley Marie
>>>> Spokane, WA
>>>>
>>>> 1971 Mach I Mustang [ASA JAY]
>>>> 1973 Pantera L 5533 [ASASCAT]
>>>>
>>>> ******************************
>>>> http://www.asajay.com
>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Julian Kift wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The correct or no spring will certainly help, I suspect at the
>>>>> moemnt you are getting coil bind on that beefy spring which is why
>>>>> the piston won't go in far enough to allow the throwout bearing
>>>>> to releases fully from the diaphragm. Personally I'd be tempted
>>>>> to get new seals for the old (matched) piston too as it had the
>>>>> recess for the spring in back and what appeared to be a deeper
>>>>> recess for the rod, these both adding to how much the clutch arm
>>>>> can move back toward the slave.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Julian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:22:16 -0700
>>>>>> From: asajay at asajay.com
>>>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Stock versus PPC slave spring, internal Re:
>>>>>> Clutch woes in Asa's garage
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Okay, so the slave came from a reputable vendor, I have no doubt of
>>>>>> that. And yes, maybe it does play nice if adjusted "just right."
>>>>>> However, I've also done a little spring comparison. Chuck Adkinson and
>>>>>> SOBill both were kind enough to snap photos of their stock slave
>>>>>> cylinders they happened to just have lying around. First, a huge THANK
>>>>>> YOU to both of them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, I took a deep breath, drained the fluid from the clutch line
>>>>>> (again)
>>>>>> and removed the spring. It has a relaxed length of about 1.75" and a
>>>>>> wire diameter of .065. I -can- compress it between my thumb and
>>>>>> forefinger... but it hurts to do so and I can't hold it for more than a
>>>>>> couple seconds. A 10 lb weight held steady on the spring will only
>>>>>> compress it about 50%.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I then opened up the photos Chuck and SOBill sent and compared them to
>>>>>> mine. The spring in my slave appears to be -much- beefier. This would
>>>>>> help explain why I am having so much difficulty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've asked if I can get a wire diameter reading off a stock cylinder. I
>>>>>> may also have a line on a stock cylinder someone might be willing to
>>>>>> part with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So in the end, maybe I'm not adjusting it "just right" but I think
>>>>>> having the proper spring might make it easier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Asa Jay
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>>>>
>>>>>> & Shelley Marie
>>>>>> Spokane, WA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1971 Mach I Mustang [ASA JAY]
>>>>>> 1973 Pantera L 5533 [ASASCAT]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ******************************
>>>>>> http://www.asajay.com
>>>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charles Engles wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Center of the Slave Cylinder Storm,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "At that time, in March of 1999, they ordered the following parts from
>>>>>>> Pantera Performance Center:
>>>>>>> - Clutch Master Cylinder w/aero fitting, aftermarket (This is the
>>>>>>> CNC unit presently on the car)
>>>>>>> - Slave cylinder assy anodized w/o pushrod (and this is my slave)
>>>>>>> So, it's a PPC Colorado part."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only tiny contribution I can make to this connundrum, is to
>>>>>>> point out that those parts are quality parts and should play
>>>>>>> well with each other and shouldn't--in and of themselves-- be
>>>>>>> the source of your headaches unless, as other wiser mechanics
>>>>>>> have suggested, that one unit has completely malfunctioned or
>>>>>>> there is a fiendish air bubble in the system.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles------a very ignorant clutch system
>>>>>>> mechanic
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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