[DeTomaso] Asa's clutch nearly there.

Tue Sep 8 19:01:49 EDT 2009

No, I didn't consider that.  Not sure I've got the right fittings to  
make that work well either.

Quoting Art Stephens <artstephens at verizon.net>:

> Did you try pressurizing the slave and bleeding up thru the master?  That is
> the way I did it because I didn't have the right cap to go from the master
> to the slave.
>
> Art
>
>
>
>
>
> "We tried in vein for nearly a half hour to hook the pressure bleeder
> to the CNC master, but we just didn't have the right fittings or
> enough room to use the generic ones."
>
> I now have a stock style master and new stock slave on order.  We'll
> see what happens.  I'll probably get in touch with Marino tomorrow.
>
> Asa Jay
>
> Quoting Art Stephens <artstephens at verizon.net>:
>
>> Asa Jay,
>> I remember that during one of my misadventures in clutch bleeding we
>> jacked up one end of the car and managed to get more air out of the
>> master.  On another occasion, after a miserable/unsuccessful attempt at
>> two man bleeding, (one pumping the pedal),  I broke out my Phoenix
>> bleeder.  We pressurized the system from the slave back to the master,
>> it worked slicker than owl shit!
>>
>> Art
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>
>> To: "De Tomaso List" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:46 PM
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Asa's clutch nearly there.
>>
>>
>>> After taking data from a lot of sources, I took out Mr. Beefy spring and
>>> replaced it with a much milder spring I had laying around from an
>>> automatic transmission valve body kit, that was never used.  This made
>>> the action of the slave much more pronounced and I was able to get
>>> things adjusted according to SOBill's procedure.  Yea!  But I still
>>> can't get total disengagement.  So I thought it's just an adjustment at
>>> this point, but I was wrong.
>>>
>>> I decided to totally remove the -external- return spring and stop
>>> monkeying with springs fighting and who knows how much return on the
>>> piston.  This allowed the release bearing to gently ride against the
>>> pressure plate fingers, which I can deal with for some troubleshooting.
>>> With the system bled of air, the clutch action is just barely, but not
>>> quite enough, to stop the trans at full throw of the system.  I can get
>>> it into any forward gear because of syncros.  But I can't get it into
>>> reverse.  With the pedal to the floor, I can barely get a .010 feeler
>>> gauge between the flywheel and the disc.  This is regardless of one
>>> pedal push, or a rapid series of pedal pushes.
>>>
>>> So.  First thing tomorrow, I'm ordering a new master and a new slave
>>> (long throw most likely), and we'll try again next weekend.
>>>
>>> Asa Jay
>>>
>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>
>>> & Shelley Marie
>>> Spokane, WA
>>>
>>> 1971 Mach I Mustang  [ASA JAY]
>>> 1973 Pantera L 5533  [ASASCAT]
>>>
>>> ******************************
>>> http://www.asajay.com
>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Julian Kift wrote:
>>>> The correct or no spring will certainly help, I suspect at the
>>>> moemnt you are getting coil bind on that beefy spring which is why
>>>>  the piston won't go in far enough to allow the throwout bearing
>>>> to  releases fully from the diaphragm. Personally I'd be tempted
>>>> to  get new seals for the old (matched) piston too as it had the
>>>> recess for the spring in back and what appeared to be a deeper
>>>> recess for the rod, these both adding to how much the clutch arm
>>>> can move back toward the slave.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Julian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:22:16 -0700
>>>>> From: asajay at asajay.com
>>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Stock versus PPC slave spring, internal Re:
>>>>> Clutch woes in Asa's garage
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay, so the slave came from a reputable vendor, I have no doubt of
>>>>> that. And yes, maybe it does play nice if adjusted "just right."
>>>>> However, I've also done a little spring comparison. Chuck Adkinson and
>>>>> SOBill both were kind enough to snap photos of their stock slave
>>>>> cylinders they happened to just have lying around. First, a huge THANK
>>>>> YOU to both of them.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, I took a deep breath, drained the fluid from the clutch line
>>>>> (again)
>>>>> and removed the spring. It has a relaxed length of about 1.75" and a
>>>>> wire diameter of .065. I -can- compress it between my thumb and
>>>>> forefinger... but it hurts to do so and I can't hold it for more than a
>>>>> couple seconds. A 10 lb weight held steady on the spring will only
>>>>> compress it about 50%.
>>>>>
>>>>> I then opened up the photos Chuck and SOBill sent and compared them to
>>>>> mine. The spring in my slave appears to be -much- beefier. This would
>>>>> help explain why I am having so much difficulty.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've asked if I can get a wire diameter reading off a stock cylinder. I
>>>>> may also have a line on a stock cylinder someone might be willing to
>>>>> part with.
>>>>>
>>>>> So in the end, maybe I'm not adjusting it "just right" but I think
>>>>> having the proper spring might make it easier.
>>>>>
>>>>> Asa Jay
>>>>>
>>>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>>>
>>>>> & Shelley Marie
>>>>> Spokane, WA
>>>>>
>>>>> 1971 Mach I Mustang [ASA JAY]
>>>>> 1973 Pantera L 5533 [ASASCAT]
>>>>>
>>>>> ******************************
>>>>> http://www.asajay.com
>>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles Engles wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Center of the Slave Cylinder Storm,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "At that time, in March of 1999, they ordered the following parts from
>>>>>> Pantera Performance Center:
>>>>>> - Clutch Master Cylinder w/aero fitting, aftermarket (This is the
>>>>>> CNC unit presently on the car)
>>>>>> - Slave cylinder assy anodized w/o pushrod (and this is my slave)
>>>>>> So, it's a PPC Colorado part."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only tiny contribution I can make to this connundrum, is to
>>>>>> point out that those parts are quality parts and should play
>>>>>> well with each other and shouldn't--in and of themselves-- be
>>>>>> the source of your headaches unless, as other wiser mechanics
>>>>>> have suggested, that one unit has completely malfunctioned or
>>>>>> there is a fiendish air bubble in the system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles------a very ignorant clutch system
>>>>>> mechanic
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at
>>>>>> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>>>>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.82/2351 - Release
>>>>>> Date: 09/07/09 06:40:00
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>>>
>>>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>>>>
>>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>>>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
>>>> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>>
>>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>>>
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.82/2351 - Release Date:
>>>> 09/07/09 06:40:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.83/2352 - Release Date:
>> 09/07/09 18:03:00
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.83/2353 - Release Date: 09/08/09
> 06:48:00
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>