[DeTomaso] Fw: 72 Seat belts

Sat May 16 02:17:19 EDT 2009

Mike,
     I'll see if I can get into the passenger seat of my smashed up car tomorrow and confirm my suspicions about the belts. IIRC,  The way the system is designed,  if you lean forward with your belt on,  let's say to get into your glove box,  you are pulling more belt out of the inertia wheel.  The problem is that when you go back to your normal driving position,  the spring in the wheel is not strong enough to take up the new slack that you just created by leaning forward.  I'm thinking the reason is that the spring is trying to pull the strap thru the adjusting portion of the system,  the piece that the belt passes thru at the male half of the buckle.  There is a lot of friction between the belt and that part.  If the inertia wheel is attached to the shoulder strap end of the system,  you don't have the problem.  With the suspect system,  the inertia wheel easily allows the seat belt to extend which is of virtually of no use that I know of?  Where you need the freedom of movement is at your shoulder strap.  The problem then becomes that you have to unbuckle the system and readjust it if you want to remove the slack from your shoulder strap,  a pain in the ass.  I also found this happening all the time as I would frequently adjust the temp of my AC that I could not reach without leaning forward.  If you never lean forward,  you would probably have no problem?  But if you lean forward at all,  you now have slack in the system.  (By the way,  I switched the location of my dimmer switch and the AC temp control switch and solved that problem). 
     I just went out and checked the system in my Honda,  the inertia wheel is at the shoulder strap end,  the belt is fixed at the seat belt end. 
    You make a good point about the way I mounted the belt to the firewall,  I will check it out and if I didn't go thru something substantial,  I will rectify that. 
    The reason you can't easily lean forward is that you have to pull the slack thru that high friction buckle,  instead of making a more direct pull thru the inertia wheel. 
     I think you are probably correct when you say that they work very similar to the original system. But IIRC the old system sucked!  So yes,  I think you are right when you say it is no worse than the old system,  but it is certainly not as good as a more modern system.  All they have to do is put the retractor at the shoulder strap end instead of the seatbelt end and they would have a more safe system provided the inertia wheel is securely mounted. 
     Mike,  you made some good points that I do appreciate.  I just think this system needs to be redesigned and rather than wait for the vendors to get it right,  why not go out and buy a better system for half the price?

Art

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: MikeLDrew at aol.com 
  To: artstephens at verizon.net ; detomaso at realbig.com 
  Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 1:53 PM
  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fw:  72 Seat belts

  In a message dated 5/15/09 13 04 45, artstephens at verizon.net writes:

             At the risk of offending some of the vendors,  I would not give
    those Hall/Precision type belts to my worst enemy.  I have a pair that I
    bought in 1997 for $225 and I have never trusted them.  I think they are a
    poor/unsafe design. 

  >>>Why?

    The seat belt portion may work but I don't think the
    shoulder strap will do what it is supposed to do in an accident,  it does
    not lock,  it will just keep slipping and letting you move forward toward
    the steering wheel. 

  >>>Inertia reels lock when the rate of rotation is great enough to displace the flyweights.  If you pull on the belt slowly, it extends.  If you give it a sudden jerk, it instantly locks.  The aftermarket belts work the same way as the stock ones do, just as well as they do.

    I have been wrong before but I actually can't believe
    that someone that manufacturers seatbelts would sell such a thing.

  >>>They couldn't sell it if it didn't work and meet DOT specs.

      And
    besides,  the retractor is in the wrong place.  It goes to the seatbelt
    instead of the shoulder strap,  so that you can't easily lean forward with
    the benefit of the retractor. 

  >>>Wait a minute.  You just said that the shoulder strap keeps slipping and lets you move towards the steering wheel, and now you say you can't easily lean forward, which is a direct contradiction.  And it's in the same place as the stock retractor is (on the early cars).

    > As far as I'm concerned,  the things suck big
    time.  Talk to me in person and I won't sugar coat my description. :-)) 

  >>>Other than the fact that the shoulder belt is permanently attached to the outboard lap belt, they function in exactly the same manner as the stock '71-73 seat belts do.  So functionally (in terms of safety) they are no better or worse than the stock belts.  But from a practical perspective, they are much easier to use--and they are festooned with De Tomaso logos which automatically makes them even better. :>)

    I
    think a much better alternative that I read about on this list are the belts
    available from www.cruisers.com .  I bought part #SO13021 for the 73-84 FJ40
    Land Cruiser.  The cost was $142 a pair including shipping.  I have them
    installed on the passenger side of my new car but I haven't gotten around to
    doing the driver's side yet.  I drilled a hole in the firewall and mounted
    the retractor to it.  I'll have to be careful on the drivers side not to
    drill thru the gas tank,  but I don't think it will be a problem. 

  >>>Wait a minute.  You drilled through the firewall, and mounted the retractor to what?  Just to the thin sheetmetal firewall itself?  If so, I think you've mounted it to nothing. :<(

  I believe (somebody correct me if I'm wrong?) that the stock L-model retractor mounts not to the thin firewall sheetmetal, but rather to the big, thick structural box chassis piece that runs side-to-side at the bottom of the car, below the sheetmetal firewall.  So that's what you need to do too.

  Dennis Quella sells a kit that allows you to mount shoulder harnesses in the middle of the firewall, but the kit consists of a U-channel of heavy-duty steel that is welded to the strong structural steel pieces at the top and bottom of the firewall, as well as to the whole firewall itself.  That makes it extremely strong.

  Unless I've misunderstood your setup, you've potentially compromised your safety greatly.  The stock shoulder harnesses (early style) mount to a strong steel box channel at the base of the window, and the late style retractors mount to a similarly strong box at the bottom of the firewall and the belt loops through a bracket attached to the channel at the base of the window.  

  >Once

    again,  I'm sorry if I step on anyone's toes,  but as you can tell,  I feel
    strongly about this.

  >>>I do too.  I'm a big advocate of safety (one of the reasons the Air Force made me a safety officer a few years ago) and I don't like to see people acting in good faith but accidently compromising their own safety.  I hope I have misinterpreted what you said you did, but if not, I strongly urge you to re-engage and fix it pronto. :>)

  Mike

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