[DeTomaso] engine question

Tue Mar 31 18:39:13 EDT 2009

OH No, another debate .....with this one.

you probably have have 2 bolt mains and the 4V denotes a 4 bbl Carb and 4V
Heads,( although one can easily put a 4 bbl on 2V heads )

The debate will come with the 2 bolt mains versus the 4 bolt mains, many
think the 2 bolt mains are actually stronger. for a street car.

Let the Games begin,

below is some info if it goes through for you

Michael in Savannah

  The Ford V-8 Engine Workshop
351 Cleveland Family
351C, Boss 351, 351 CJ, 351M, 400

  With its free breathing large port canted valve head design and rugged
block, the 351 Cleveland was an engine designed to make real horsepower. The
351C was used very successfully in NASCAR and drag racing. The 400 engine
has a longer stroke, and higher cylinder deck. The 351M shares this taller
block with the 400.

  *351 Cleveland Family* *Bore* *Stroke*   3.50" 4.00" 4.00" *351* *400*
------------------------------

 The Cleveland family engines are easily identified. The water outlet sits
vertically on the top of the block. The distributor leans slightly to the
passenger side. The cylinder heads are large, thick in the direction between
intake and exhaust flanges. The valve cover mating surface is fairly
rectangular, with 8 attaching bolts. The timing chain is contained within a
cavity in the block. The cover is a flat plate behind the water pump.
------------------------------

Cleveland Family Cylinder Heads  The Cleveland design cylinder heads are the
real trick to the engine's performance. Several versions exist. Monsterous
ports are found on the four barrel
(4V<http://phystutor.tripod.com/stang/engines/d1ae-ga.html>)
variety giving very high flow capacity on an all out race motor. Somewhat
smaller ports on the 2V version result in increased low-end torque, perhaps
better suited to today's street applications. The combustion chambers were
made in closed chamber quench shape, and also in a lower compression open
chamber style. Engines designed for hydraulic lifter camshafts use slotted
rocker arm pedestals, for non-adjustable rockers. These slots maintain the
pushrod alignment. 1971 Boss and 1972 High Output engines featured
mecahnical lifter camshafts with flat pedestals for adjustable rocker arms
and pushrod guide plates. These heads also have machined valve spring seats
for use with mulitple coil valve springs. The high performance heads utilize
single groove valve stem locks. Australian heads come in even more variety.

4-barrel heads may be identified by the casting mark at the upper corners of
the valve cover mating surface. Australian heads (at least the ones I've
seen) and Boss 302 heads do not have these marks. A casting number
identifying the head is found on the deck side.

  *Head* *Chamber* *Port
size* *Intake
valve* *Exhaust
valve* *Application*   Two barrel
(2V) Open
76.9-79.9cc
74.7-77.7cc Small 2.05" 1.65" 1970/ 351C-2V, 351M, 400 Four barrel
(4V) Closed
61.3-64.3cc Large 2.19" 1.71" 1970/71 351C-4V
D0AE-G, -M, -N, -R, D1AE-GA Boss 351 Closed
64.6-67.6cc Large 2.19" 1.71" 1971 Boss 351
D1ZE-B 351 CJ Open
73.9-76.9cc Large 2.19" (71/72)
2.05" (73/74) 1.71" (71/72)
1.65" (73/74) 1971 351 CJ
1972/74 351C-4V 351 HO Open
73.9-76.9cc Large 2.19" 1.71" 1972/73 351 HO
D2ZE-A Boss 302 Closed
61.3-64.3cc Large 2.23" 1.71" 1969 Boss 302
C9ZE-A, -B Boss 302 Closed
57.0-60.0cc Large 2.19" 1.71" 1970 Boss 302, D0ZE-A, -B
Service replacement D1ZE-A Australian
302C-2V Closed
56.4-59.4cc Small 2.05" 1.65" 1972/83 Australian 302C-2V Australian
351C-2V Open
76.8-79.8cc Small 2.05" 1.65" 1972/73 Australian 351C-2V Australian
351C-2V Open
72.2-75.2cc Small 2.05" 1.65" 1976/83 Australian 351C-2V Australian
351C-4V Closed
64.6-67.6cc Large 2.19" 1.71" 1972/73 Australian 351C-4V
------------------------------

4-bolt Mains  4-bolt main bearing caps are used to support higher horsepower
and continued high speed operation.

These are found on:

R-code Boss 351, 1971
R-code 351 HO, 1972
Q-code 351 CJ, 1971-73

While the 4-bolt main caps are found on only some of the 351C-4V engines,
all 351C blocks are cast with provisions to accept the caps. The
registration saddle is machined the same wide size as the 4-bolt engines.
The supporting bulkheads are the same as the 2-bolt blocks, allowing the
extra holes to be drilled and tapped.
------------------------------

351C vs. 351M  The 351M is sort of a hybrid between a 351C and the 400. The
351C and 351M have the same bore and stroke - 4.00" x 3.50" (also shared by
the 351W and the 352). The 351C, 351M, 351W, and all other small blocks
share the same bore spacing and cylinder head bolt pattern. Cleveland style
heads were first used on the 1969 Boss
302<http://phystutor.tripod.com/stang/engines/boss302.html>.

The 351M has the higher deck block of the 400. This makes the engine wider
and heavier than a 351C. As a result, 351M has longer connecting rods.

The 351M uses the larger 351W / 400 sized crankshaft journals. Stronger in
the heavy duty truck sense, but more friction for performance applications
at high RPM.

    *351C* *351M* *400* *351W*   *Deck height* 9.206" 10.297" 10.297"
9.503"* *Rod length* 5.780" 6.580" 6.580" 5.956" *Main journal* 2.749"
3.000" 3.000" 3.000" *Rod journal* 2.311" 2.311" 2.311" 2.311" *Compression
Height* 1.647" 1.947" 1.647" 1.769"
* 1969/70 351W deck is 9.480"

The 351C was available with both 2-barrel and 4-barrel heads, with very
different port sizes. The 4V size was *the* choice for high performance
builders in the '70s. The 351M is available only with the smaller port, 2V
heads. These are more practical on a street engine where low end torque is
desired.

The 351C uses the Small
Block<http://phystutor.tripod.com/stang/engines/small.html>(289/302)
bellhousing bolt pattern. The 351M and 400 use the Big
Block <http://phystutor.tripod.com/stang/engines/big.html> (429/460)
bellhousing bolt pattern, with the exception of a fairly rare 1973 block.

All 351C blocks can be machined for 4 bolt mains.

The 351M/400 uses thinner wall block so isn't as strong after an overbore,
and more prone to overheating.

351M/400 blocks cast at Michigan Casting Center before March 1977 had
casting problems, resulting in cracking of the water jacket inside the
lifter gallery. Blocks with date codes of 7C01 or later should be OK.

Cleveland family engines use a distributor that will physically interchange
with those of the 429/460 big block.

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Christopher Kimball
<chrisvkimball at msn.com>wrote:

>
> I have someone interested in my old engine, but he asked whether or not it
> was a four-bolt with four barrell heads.  At least, I think that's what he
> said.
>
>
>
> I'm not exactly sure what that means, but my motor has certain numbers on
> it which may tell those of you that know these sort of things.
>
>
>
> On the block, there is a raised circle with a 10 on it, and elsewhere on
> the block these numbers are shown:  231, and below that 92AE-CA.  The
> Edelbrock manifold has the numbers F3514V.
>
>
>
> Do these numbers reveal the four bolt & heads questions?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
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-- 

Michael L. Shortt
Savannah, Georgia
www.michaelshortt.com
michael at michaelshortt.com
912-232-9390

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