[DeTomaso] Under car water pipes

Wed Jun 24 08:18:13 EDT 2009

Asa Jay,

A little late but still: my car has similarities to John's concept. Some mods were done by me, others were done by prior owners.

Radiator is stock but modified to be single pass. Inlet is at top right corner, outlet at bottom left (from drivers seat). I connected the top right air nipple to the under car tube closest to the outlet tube to see if it would self-purge air. This did not happen. This indicates that the pressure drop over the radiator is less than one radiator height (approximately  0.5 m) of water. Since one bar is 10 m of water this is a pretty low flow resistance IMO. The radiator is slightly moved forward but not really in a lay down position.

The swirl pot has been removed. Water exits through a cut down stock thermostat housing with a 38 mm tube welded to it pointing straight up. This is because my Ford/Laminova oil cooler has a 38 mm inlet. The cooler is mounted similar to how John mounted his. The short horisontal tube from thermostat to cooler is the highest point in my cooling system (except for the water reservoir) and hence there's a de-airing nipple in that tube. This is connected to a nipple on the water reservoir close to the top of it. The bottom reservoir nipple is connected to the heater tube leading to the water pump with a "T"-connector (read: it doesn't suck much better than that anywhere in the system). What I expect to happen is that any air in the system gathers in the reservoir as I start the engine. The heater is operational and connected as stock, one end to block, one end to water pump. As I installed the oil cooler I mounted it high enough to allow an elbow to direct the outlet tube below the AC compressor above the chassis. The horisontal tube mentioned above going to the cooler sits just below the engine screen.

Tomas

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <asajay at asajay.com>
To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Under car water pipes

>I for one have read through John's article and though thorough, it's a  
> bit of work to implement.  There are quite a few other parts to  
> procure, pipes to modify, a hole in the frame that needs to be  
> created, etc.  There is way too much there for me to bite off in one  
> chuck.
> 
> The comment that it is logical from an engineering point of view  
> interests me of course.  So my question is, what exactly about the  
> change contributes to the more effective cooling?
> 
> Where can corners be cut to make improvements?
> If I don't install an oil cooler that cuts down a little.
> What about doing away with the heater altogether?  (not that I'm going  
> to do that).
> 
> I'm just thinking what are the simple mods I can do to help improve  
> the situation.
> 
> Asa Jay
> 
> Quoting Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>:
> 
>> I've been intrigued by this thread. The subject of the Pantera cooling
>> system comes up time and again and it's kind of like the old dead horse
>> story...
>> Why are more people not implementing the system John Taphorn used on his
>> car? John was advised on how to do this by Mike Trusty (who has applied it
>> on Panteras, Countachs, Renaults, etc.) and the modification/design works.
>>
>> Very successful, fairly easy to implement, no larger pipes required, etc.
>> etc.
>>
>> I have done something very similar on my GT40 and it made a big difference.
>> It's even logical and makes sense from an engineering point of view. It's
>> the first thing I'm going to do to my Pantera when I get it back. I used a
>> different thermostat housing, but the result was the same.
>>
>> The article John wrote can be found here.
>>
>> http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/technical.html
>>
>> Click on the 'new approach' link and the diagram to get all the info you
>> need.
>> The article was also published in one of the POCA magazines, but I forget
>> which one...
>>
>> I hope this helps some.
>>
>> FWIW,
>> Kirby
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:17 PM, <JDeRyke at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> History lesson: back in April 1980, a few weeks before we purchased our '72
>>> L, Armand Gosselin of Orlando FL converted his '72 Pantera from 1-3/8" OD
>>> cooling tubes to 2". He did the ENTIRE system, not just the long under-car
>>> tubes! With the help of a local MIdas Muffler shop, Armand had them bend
>>> replicas of all the water tubes in the car, also changing the radiator
>>> inlet and
>>> outlet spigots and the spigots on both water tanks to 2". He had some
>>> trouble opening up the underbody grommet holes and support block for the
>>> much
>>> larger tubes- there's not much metal left when you do this! He also had
>>> trouble
>>> getting the larger diameter 2" tube to wrap around the gearshift rod
>>> without
>>> rattling and rubbing. But he finally prevailed- see PI Tech Info Group 27,
>>> Article 10.
>>>
>>> The Pantera responded by running pretty much as it had before. Some time
>>> before the work was started, there was a long discussion as to the possible
>>> benefits, and one contributor said that it should make little difference
>>> because as the ID of the tubes increases, the speed of water flow decreases
>>> with
>>> the same pump & pulley, thus maintaining about the same flow volume. I
>>> can't
>>> find the discussion in P.I, but it turned out he was correct. And besides
>>> the water tubes, there are two other places in the cooling system where
>>> flow
>>> is restricted: the stock radiator and the thermostat (possibly by design).
>>> If those are not enlarged, all you've done with bigger water pipes is
>>> slightly increase the cooling system volume.
>>>
>>> An aluminum radiator with its 3X larger internal water tubes DOES increase
>>> the flow rate of water thru it, but the thermostat then remains as the
>>> primary impediment to higher water flow through our cooling systems. I'm
>>> working
>>> on that.... FWIW- J Deryke, defacto Historian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> **************
>>> Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the
>>> grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004)
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