[DeTomaso] Pantera vs. Saturn drag race

Wed Jan 7 02:35:58 EST 2009

I must say that watching a shuttle launch at night from Cocoa Beach is 
damn impressive if you haven't seen an Apollo launch IRL :-)

My wife said it was visible also from Ft Lauderdale.

Thomas

michael at michaelshortt.com skrev:
> I can't believe y'all started this thread on here knowing how many engineer
> types populate the forum, good God, it's gonna rain geekdrops for days!
> 
> But having said that...
> 
> I was 9.5 years old when my Grandfather loaded us into the Dodge Explorer
> Motorhome in 1969 to go see Apollo 11 lift off, I have also seen two
> Shuttles lift off.
> 
> A Saturn 5  Rocket being compared to a Shuttle is akin to comparing my 500
> HP Pantera to a Tykes Plastic Peddle Car.
> 
> I was 2 miles away, across a river, the ground shook, the water rippled, the
> air rush wasn't imagined, it was by far the most awesome display of power
> that I have had the privilege to experience in my entire life.
> 
> 
> Aside from all these comparsions and since the brainy types will surely
> check this out, I do have a serious question with regard to the Shuttles
> that has bothered me since the last incident.
> 
> As we all know the last fatal Shuttle crash happened ( as shared with us
> anyway ) as a result of a piece of ice or insulation falling off the storage
> tank and striking the wing's leading edge, thus leaving a hole for re-entry
> gases/heat to cause terminal damage, leading to the loss of control and the
> eventual break up of the Shuttle.
> 
> Then tests were conducted that showed ice being fired out of an air cannon
> at a reproduction of the wing's leading edge, the exit speed of the ice was
> reported to be greater than 500 mph.
> 
> If the mass of the Shuttle, ( Orbiter, Tank and Solid Fuel Engines ) was
> accelerating at up to
> 17,000 miles per hour ( as it reaches "space"), and accounting for all parts
> to have equal forward momentum, would an errant piece of ice that separated
> from the Tank really decelerate by 500 mph in the 20-30 feet between the
> ice's separation point and contact with the wing's leading edge?
> 
> The variables that bother me are.....  If it happened early in the lift off
> and it appeared to happen before clearing the tower or just thereafter, then
> as stated in all these posts, the Shuttle wasn't going even close to 17,000
> mph, it fact, it probably wasn't even supersonic yet, so how could there be
> a 500 mph difference in speed between the ice and the wing's edge.
> 
> Or if it happened at a higher attitude, the air would be much, much thinner,
> thus less drag on the ice, thus retaining more forward speed - then why
> would the collision differential still be so great?
> 
> Inquiring minds need an explanation.
> 
> Soaking wet with geek drops in Savannah,
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Mark McWhinney <msm at portata.com> wrote:
> 
>> No need for physics or guessing.  Watch the launch of an Apollo mission
>> rocket on YouTube.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc1IKpWZpxc
>>
>> It takes around 10 seconds for the rocket to clear its own height (360
>> feet) and several more to reach a quarter mile (1,320 feet).  In that
>> time, a top fuel car has popped its chutes and is headed back to the
>> garage.
>>
>> The 180 foot tall Space Shuttle is a bit quicker but still no match for
>> a top fuel car.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FROxZ5i67k
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
>> On Behalf Of adin at frontier.net
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:12 AM
>> To: Thomas Tornblom
>> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera vs. Saturn drag race
>>
>>  Thomas,
>> The information officer, as I remember, said the rate of acceleration
>> was constant.  This is a valid point, but the rate might be considered
>> "constant" for the case in point.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I've lost my license to post as a physicist and can only
>> guess!
>>
>> This all started w/ an online debate about which was quicker: top fuel
>> car or the shuttle.  I emailed a friend a NASA who found an email for
>> the PR information people.  They found someone w/ the data!
>>
>> This was some years ago . . . .
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting Thomas Tornblom <Thomas.Tornblom at hax.se>:
>>
>>> adin at frontier.net skrev:
>>>> FWIW, a good top fuel car accelerates faster than the big missles
>>>> (data from NASA).  However, the rate of acceleration for these
>>>> rockets stays basically the same for a few miles (hundreds, or
>>>> until they stop  for a traffic light).
>>> I thought they accelerated harder as they burn off fuel and gets
>>> lighter, or do they throttle down to compensate?
>>>
>>> Thomas
>>
>>
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> 
> 
> 

-- 
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