[DeTomaso] Why use a 351 Cleveland rather then a 351 Windsor??

Sat Jan 3 05:03:57 EST 2009

3 jan 2009 kl. 08.22 skrev Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>:

>
> Will,
>
> I ran 1, 2, 3 on my 377 stroker for years. I have never been convinced
> that #4 is a necessary mod.

This was discussed some time ago and I think most engines waste the  
front bearings, which goes against the theory of the external feed line.

>
> Never needed it on mine, at least. Wound it to 7200rpm a lot....
>
> #5 is an option that I would do only if required.
>
> Kirby
>
>
> On 2 Jan 2009, at 11:40 PM, Will Kooiman wrote:
>
>> Why use a 351C?  Mostly so you don't have to play games to make
>> things fit,
>> but also... why not?
>>
>> I think you've been misinformed about the 351W being a much better
>> engine.
>> The 351W gets more press, but I sure wouldn't call it better.
>>
>> Put it this way, if you take a stock 351W and do a basic performance
>> rebuild, and then you do the same thing to a 351C, the 351C is
>> probably
>> going to be faster - even for a street build.  If you put aluminum
>> heads on
>> the 351W, do the same thing with the 351C.  The 351C is still going
>> to be
>> faster.
>>
>> If you're looking for high HP - 408W with big Windsor aluminum heads
>> vs.
>> 408C with Kaase heads & intake... the 408C is going to stomp the  
>> 408W.
>>
>> Don't believe what you read about the ports being too large.  I
>> drove my car
>> for 3-4 years with a stock 351C, open chamber heads, and a Torker
>> intake.
>> It ran great - slightly faster than a standard C6 Corvette.  I had
>> to let up
>> to keep from running into him.  And, that's with big port heads, and
>> the
>> stock crappy camshaft.
>>
>> One note, though.  Whatever engine you use, make sure you address
>> oiling.  A
>> Pantera can easily pull enough G's to starve the pickup.  What
>> happens next
>> is usually bent pushrods, if you're lucky.  If you're unlucky, you
>> spin a
>> bearing.
>>
>> Everyone has their own list.  My list is:
>>
>> 1.  Pantera specific oil pan (non negotiable - if you run the car
>> hard).
>> 2.  Moroso oil restrictors.
>> 3.  Solid lifters (can't collapse if oil pressure drops)
>> 4.  Run an external line from the pressure port to the back of the
>> block.
>> 5.  Install bushings in the lifter bores.
>>
>> I've done 1-3.
>>
>> The engine I'm working on right now will have #4.
>>
>> I considered #5, but I decided against it.  If it were still apart,
>> I'd do
>> the bushings, though.  I spun the oil pump with the intake off.  It's
>> amazing how much oil escapes into the lifter valley - and I wasn't
>> even
>> turning the engine over.
>>
>> Good Luck,
>>
>> Will.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>> ] On
>> Behalf Of P. Rimov
>> Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 8:33 PM
>> To: deTomaso at realbig.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Why use a 351 Cleveland rather then a 351
>> Windsor??
>>
>> With your background racing Chevrolets perhaps you should use
>> neither the
>> 351 Windsor or the 351 Cleveland but the latest and greatest  
>> Chevrolet
>> offering. Dare to be different and be ridiculed, teased, criticized
>> and yet
>> admired. I don't believe the big ported heads are exactly worthless
>> on the
>> street but Chevrolet affectionatos tend to be unaccustomed to the
>> power
>> surge that is realized with Cleveland heads at higher rpms.
>> Additionally,
>> there is a world of difference in the feel of a Windsor powered
>> Pantera and
>> a Cleveland powered Pantera. Both have their advantages and
>> disadvantages
>> that numbers alone can not exemplify.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Paul
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 11:39 AM
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Why use a 351 Cleveland rather then a 351
>> Windsor??
>>
>>
>>> Ok you ford guys, why would I want to put a 351 Cleveland back in my
>>> Pantera, instead of using a much better engine, the 351 Windsor??
>>>
>>> I have used and raced Chevrolets all my life until I purchased my
>>> 73L.  It
>>
>>> of course came with a 351 Cleveland with the big ported heads
>>> (which are
>>> useless on the street).  I had a custom built 351 Cleveland with
>>> Aluminum
>>> Heads and complete roller motor built, and It is ready to go into
>>> the car
>>> now.  I happened to be at a Barnes & Noble and purchased a book on
>>> Windsor
>>
>>> engines, it seems to me that would have been a better way to go.   
>>> Any
>>> input would be greatly appreciated as I know nothing about ford
>>> engines.
>>>
>>> I hope I didn't open a can of worms, but I think we could all
>>> benefit from
>>
>>> this discussion.  Thanks.
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