[DeTomaso] Why use a 351 Cleveland rather then a 351 Windsor??
Kirby Schrader
kirby.schrader at gmail.com
Sat Jan 3 02:22:52 EST 2009
Will,
I ran 1, 2, 3 on my 377 stroker for years. I have never been convinced
that #4 is a necessary mod.
Never needed it on mine, at least. Wound it to 7200rpm a lot....
#5 is an option that I would do only if required.
Kirby
On 2 Jan 2009, at 11:40 PM, Will Kooiman wrote:
> Why use a 351C? Mostly so you don't have to play games to make
> things fit,
> but also... why not?
>
> I think you've been misinformed about the 351W being a much better
> engine.
> The 351W gets more press, but I sure wouldn't call it better.
>
> Put it this way, if you take a stock 351W and do a basic performance
> rebuild, and then you do the same thing to a 351C, the 351C is
> probably
> going to be faster - even for a street build. If you put aluminum
> heads on
> the 351W, do the same thing with the 351C. The 351C is still going
> to be
> faster.
>
> If you're looking for high HP - 408W with big Windsor aluminum heads
> vs.
> 408C with Kaase heads & intake... the 408C is going to stomp the 408W.
>
> Don't believe what you read about the ports being too large. I
> drove my car
> for 3-4 years with a stock 351C, open chamber heads, and a Torker
> intake.
> It ran great - slightly faster than a standard C6 Corvette. I had
> to let up
> to keep from running into him. And, that's with big port heads, and
> the
> stock crappy camshaft.
>
> One note, though. Whatever engine you use, make sure you address
> oiling. A
> Pantera can easily pull enough G's to starve the pickup. What
> happens next
> is usually bent pushrods, if you're lucky. If you're unlucky, you
> spin a
> bearing.
>
> Everyone has their own list. My list is:
>
> 1. Pantera specific oil pan (non negotiable - if you run the car
> hard).
> 2. Moroso oil restrictors.
> 3. Solid lifters (can't collapse if oil pressure drops)
> 4. Run an external line from the pressure port to the back of the
> block.
> 5. Install bushings in the lifter bores.
>
> I've done 1-3.
>
> The engine I'm working on right now will have #4.
>
> I considered #5, but I decided against it. If it were still apart,
> I'd do
> the bushings, though. I spun the oil pump with the intake off. It's
> amazing how much oil escapes into the lifter valley - and I wasn't
> even
> turning the engine over.
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Will.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> ] On
> Behalf Of P. Rimov
> Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 8:33 PM
> To: deTomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Why use a 351 Cleveland rather then a 351
> Windsor??
>
> With your background racing Chevrolets perhaps you should use
> neither the
> 351 Windsor or the 351 Cleveland but the latest and greatest Chevrolet
> offering. Dare to be different and be ridiculed, teased, criticized
> and yet
> admired. I don't believe the big ported heads are exactly worthless
> on the
> street but Chevrolet affectionatos tend to be unaccustomed to the
> power
> surge that is realized with Cleveland heads at higher rpms.
> Additionally,
> there is a world of difference in the feel of a Windsor powered
> Pantera and
> a Cleveland powered Pantera. Both have their advantages and
> disadvantages
> that numbers alone can not exemplify.
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 11:39 AM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Why use a 351 Cleveland rather then a 351
> Windsor??
>
>
>> Ok you ford guys, why would I want to put a 351 Cleveland back in my
>> Pantera, instead of using a much better engine, the 351 Windsor??
>>
>> I have used and raced Chevrolets all my life until I purchased my
>> 73L. It
>
>> of course came with a 351 Cleveland with the big ported heads
>> (which are
>> useless on the street). I had a custom built 351 Cleveland with
>> Aluminum
>> Heads and complete roller motor built, and It is ready to go into
>> the car
>> now. I happened to be at a Barnes & Noble and purchased a book on
>> Windsor
>
>> engines, it seems to me that would have been a better way to go. Any
>> input would be greatly appreciated as I know nothing about ford
>> engines.
>>
>> I hope I didn't open a can of worms, but I think we could all
>> benefit from
>
>> this discussion. Thanks.
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