[DeTomaso] Why use a 351 Cleveland rather then a 351 Windsor??

[Kirby Schrader]

Will,

I ran 1, 2, 3 on my 377 stroker for years. I have never been convinced  
that #4 is a necessary mod.
Never needed it on mine, at least. Wound it to 7200rpm a lot....

#5 is an option that I would do only if required.

Kirby


On 2 Jan 2009, at 11:40 PM, Will Kooiman wrote:

> Why use a 351C?  Mostly so you don't have to play games to make  
> things fit,
> but also... why not?
>
> I think you've been misinformed about the 351W being a much better  
> engine.
> The 351W gets more press, but I sure wouldn't call it better.
>
> Put it this way, if you take a stock 351W and do a basic performance
> rebuild, and then you do the same thing to a 351C, the 351C is  
> probably
> going to be faster - even for a street build.  If you put aluminum  
> heads on
> the 351W, do the same thing with the 351C.  The 351C is still going  
> to be
> faster.
>
> If you're looking for high HP - 408W with big Windsor aluminum heads  
> vs.
> 408C with Kaase heads & intake... the 408C is going to stomp the 408W.
>
> Don't believe what you read about the ports being too large.  I  
> drove my car
> for 3-4 years with a stock 351C, open chamber heads, and a Torker  
> intake.
> It ran great - slightly faster than a standard C6 Corvette.  I had  
> to let up
> to keep from running into him.  And, that's with big port heads, and  
> the
> stock crappy camshaft.
>
> One note, though.  Whatever engine you use, make sure you address  
> oiling.  A
> Pantera can easily pull enough G's to starve the pickup.  What  
> happens next
> is usually bent pushrods, if you're lucky.  If you're unlucky, you  
> spin a
> bearing.
>
> Everyone has their own list.  My list is:
>
> 1.  Pantera specific oil pan (non negotiable - if you run the car  
> hard).
> 2.  Moroso oil restrictors.
> 3.  Solid lifters (can't collapse if oil pressure drops)
> 4.  Run an external line from the pressure port to the back of the  
> block.
> 5.  Install bushings in the lifter bores.
>
> I've done 1-3.
>
> The engine I'm working on right now will have #4.
>
> I considered #5, but I decided against it.  If it were still apart,  
> I'd do
> the bushings, though.  I spun the oil pump with the intake off.  It's
> amazing how much oil escapes into the lifter valley - and I wasn't  
> even
> turning the engine over.
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Will.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com 
> ] On
> Behalf Of P. Rimov
> Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 8:33 PM
> To: deTomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Why use a 351 Cleveland rather then a 351  
> Windsor??
>
> With your background racing Chevrolets perhaps you should use  
> neither the
> 351 Windsor or the 351 Cleveland but the latest and greatest Chevrolet
> offering. Dare to be different and be ridiculed, teased, criticized  
> and yet
> admired. I don't believe the big ported heads are exactly worthless  
> on the
> street but Chevrolet affectionatos tend to be unaccustomed to the  
> power
> surge that is realized with Cleveland heads at higher rpms.  
> Additionally,
> there is a world of difference in the feel of a Windsor powered  
> Pantera and
> a Cleveland powered Pantera. Both have their advantages and  
> disadvantages
> that numbers alone can not exemplify.
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 11:39 AM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Why use a 351 Cleveland rather then a 351  
> Windsor??
>
>
>> Ok you ford guys, why would I want to put a 351 Cleveland back in my
>> Pantera, instead of using a much better engine, the 351 Windsor??
>>
>> I have used and raced Chevrolets all my life until I purchased my  
>> 73L.  It
>
>> of course came with a 351 Cleveland with the big ported heads  
>> (which are
>> useless on the street).  I had a custom built 351 Cleveland with  
>> Aluminum
>> Heads and complete roller motor built, and It is ready to go into  
>> the car
>> now.  I happened to be at a Barnes & Noble and purchased a book on  
>> Windsor
>
>> engines, it seems to me that would have been a better way to go.  Any
>> input would be greatly appreciated as I know nothing about ford  
>> engines.
>>
>> I hope I didn't open a can of worms, but I think we could all  
>> benefit from
>
>> this discussion.  Thanks.
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