[DeTomaso] Quenched Head Rework or Tweaks???

Sat Jan 3 00:55:18 EST 2009

I have pieces of some Ferrea 5000 series valves on my bench, along with a
351C block that needs 1 sleeve.

I have 6000 series valves in my next engine.

The price difference between 5000 and 6000 series valves is miniscule
compared to the rest of the cost to build an engine.

There are 2 theories on why my engine came apart.

One theory is that it ingested debris through unfiltered Webers.  The debris
caused a valve to bend and then to separate from the valve stem.

The second theory is the valve head came off on its own.

What's known is the valve head came off, banged around a few revolutions,
disintegrated the piston, and put 3 or 4 holes in the cylinder.

I believe the second theory for 2 reasons.  First, I have a hard time
believing it could have sucked in a rock, nail, etc. large enough to cause
the valve head to separate.  Second, I've read 3 or 4 stories about people
that had the same results - with 5000 series valves.

You're best bet is to talk to some engine builders about the different
valves.  Use the best valves you can find.

I don't think Summit or Jegs carry Ferrea 5000 series valves.  I believe I
got mine from Flatlander Racing.

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Thomas Borcich
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 10:58 PM
To: Pantera Ken Green; Pantera Doug Braun; Pantera REALBIG forum
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Quenched Head Rework or Tweaks???

Ford 
            BOSS 302-351C-429-460

            F5045
            E
            1.710
            11/32
            5.060
            .250
            12° Under Cut-Dish Head
            $10.50

            F5145
            E
            1.760
            11/32
            5.060
            .250
            9° Flo Dish Head
            $10.50

            F5037
            I
            2.190
            11/32
            5.300
            .250
            10° Under Cut-Dish Head
            $10.50

            F5031
            I
            2.250
            11/32
            5.271
            .250
            10° Under Cut-Dish Head 
            $10.50

            Part #
            Type
            Head

            Diam
            Stem

            Diam
            Overall

              Length
            Tip

            Length
            References
            Price

            Per Valve
Hope you can see the chart I cut and pasted...the Ferrea valve shows two
different cuts for exhaust...a 12 degree under-cut 
dish head vs. a 9 degree flo dish head. I think the first one (12 degree
under cut) is better?  This is the 5000 series 
which is probably more to my use (street and a few track days).  Or the
Milodons...both are about the same cost.

Best regards, 

Tom Borcich

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:44:01 -0800
From: kenn_green at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Quenched Head Rework or Tweaks???
To: doug at silicondesigns.com; detomaso at realbig.com; tborcich at msn.com

Flatlander Racing appears to have the Manley Severe Duty 351C valves for
$398 for all 16:

http://www.flatlanderracing.com/

They also have the Ferrea 6000 Series valves for $15 each, has anyone tried
them?  Some people seem to prefer the Ferrea valves, I don't recall why.

They are usually cheaper than Summit if they have the part.

Ken

--- On Fri, 1/2/09, Thomas Borcich <tborcich at msn.com> wrote:

From: Thomas Borcich <tborcich at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Quenched Head Rework or Tweaks???
To: doug at silicondesigns.com, "Pantera REALBIG forum" <detomaso at realbig.com>
Date: Friday, January 2, 2009, 7:23 PM

Thanks for all the info back on the one piece valves...new valves it is.

Best regards, 

Tom Borcich

> From: doug at silicondesigns.com
> To: tborcich at msn.com
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Quenched Head Rework or Tweaks???
> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 13:45:33 -0800
> 
> Thomas,
> 
> 	One good choice for valves are Manley Racemaster (Severe Duty)
one-piece
> stainless.  You can get them here for a reasonable price.
> 
> www.summitracing.com
> 
> Enter part number MAN-11782-8 (intake) & MAN-11783-8 (Exhaust)
> 
> Doug Braun
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of Thomas Borcich
> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:43 AM
> To: Pantera REALBIG forum
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Quenched Head Rework or Tweaks???
> 
> 
> 
> HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!  2009 is going to be a much better year cause the Panter
> should be back together.
> 
> I followed Jack's advice to go from the 72 open chambers to 71
> quenched chamber heads...they should arrive in a week or two from a
> fellow Pantera owner who had a complete set sitting on the shelf and
> gave me a smoking deal (Thanks Julian!!). I'm 90% sure the valves are
> original OEM. What kind of valve failure rate do the OEM values have
> once their three and a half decades old? I recall they're two piece,
and
> have read that some opt for one piece valves....I'm ok with
> the OEM's for now if their dependable at this age.
> 
> I'll end with a 10.5 to 1 CR+/-, (I will probably surface the heads to
make
> sure
> they're flat),  balanced stock lower end with TRW forged flat tops.
I'm
> removing the dual points and sticking in one of the electronic pointless
> modules
> with a rev limiter to keep it around 6,000-6,500. Cam was replaced
(previous
> owner) with a 498 lift intake and 510 lift exhaust, duration 262 intake
> 272 exhaust. I will make sure the cam is set at 0 degrees.
> 
> Should I do any porting (JUST KIDDING!!! Couldn't resist asking that).
> Actually
> I may just clean up and smooth the exhaust ports.
> 
> Are OEM springs ok to 6500 rpm if this combination will go that high?
> 
> I believe the heads are ready to bolt on, the seats are in pretty good
shape
> with a recent 3 angle grind and the stem seals are soft and pliable.  From
> pictures they look very clean and to have very little mileage on them
since
> a rework.
> 
> In high school I had a 67 Mustang GT Fast Back with a 289...stock Ford
valve
> train...
> I reved the sheeeeet out of that motor for years and never lost a valve or
> kissed
> a piston...definitely floated the valves a few times....point is the 351C
> has to have as good or better stock valve train than the 289...so why
> change for my purposes are (fun driving and a track day a few times a
year).
> I'd rather put time into other areas of the car to get back on the
road.
> 
> Tom Borcich
> 
> 
> #4382
> 
> 
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