[DeTomaso] AAAAAAARGH!!!!!

Sun Jun 3 21:47:29 EDT 2007

The type of car doesn't matter unless you're trying to keep it original
looking.

The starter relay works just like the relays we use for the fans and
headlights.  It's just bigger since it has to handle more juice.

There are 2 fat wires, and one or two small wires. The small wires trip the
relay, similar to turning on a light switch. The fat wires run the current
to start the starter.  You use the relay because otherwise, you'd need
battery cable size wires in your steering column.

I looked around for the p/n for my F-700 sized relay.  I couldn't find them.
I can describe it, though.  The normal relay is black or dark brown with big
studs on the sides and two small wires on the top.  The relay I have is gray
and has all 4 wires on top.  It is bigger around than the normal relay, and
it seems to be a pound heavier.

There are letters on each stud. There are also letters next to the studs on
the original style relay.  The letters are the same, so just keep put the S
on the S, and the I on the I, etc.

You might also try an original style relay, but buy it at NAPA.  I've been
told from some mechanic friends that they have higher quality parts.  Just
stay away from the bargain Autozone type outlets.  I've had at least 3
relays from Autozone fail in a short amount of time.  They replace them for
free, but that doesn't help the frustration of being stranded.

You might also try buying one from Ford.

Will.

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Christopher Kimball
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 7:26 PM
To: johnmckee at cox.net
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] AAAAAAARGH!!!!!

Dear John,

Thank you for the picture!  I'll try the whack method next, but I did the 
tests the folks on the forum recommended and it turns out it is the relay, 
although mine looks very different than the picture you sent since all my 
electrics are new.  When I jumped across the relay, the motor turned over 
just great, so I can breathe a sigh of "it's not seized" relief!

I called Schucks and they are open late tonight, so I was thinking about 
getting a solenoid for a Ford F-350 as was recommended, but the part number 
they had is S-63 and it's for either a 302 or another, larger size (I think 
she said 360, but for a Ford 460 would make more sense to me), but they 
didn't specify 351 Cleveland.  Will the one they have designed for the '72 
F-350 work for me, or should I take my new but non-functioning NAPA one down

there and have them cross reference it?  If I do that I might just end up 
with another one from Shuck's just as wimpy as the one I already have.

Thanks again.

Chris

PS:  I'm actually amazed I was able to figure this out--I guess it just goes

to show the Beatles' song is right; "I get by with a little help from m 
friends, oh I'm gonna try with a little help from my friends, oh I'm gonna 
eventually know how to work on my Pantera's motors with a little help from 
my friends..."

>From: "John McKee" <johnmckee at cox.net>
>To: "Christopher Kimball" <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
>CC: <deTomaso at realbig.com>
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] AAAAAAARGH!!!!!
>Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 16:38:08 -0700
>
>Chris,
>
>I am attaching a picture of my stock starter solenoid.
>It is quite easy to see as I am standing where the motor would normally 
>sit.
>See round black object on the far right side with a big battery cable 
>coming in one side and leaving the other side to connect to the starter.
>If you do not have this type then it is probably integrated with the 
>starter.
>Solenoids can sometimes just "stick" and my favorite fix is to give them 
>the ol' Fonzy whack with a screw driver and see if it will engage.
>
>John
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Christopher Kimball" <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
>To: <wkooiman at earthlink.net>; <johnmckee at cox.net>
>Cc: <deTomaso at realbig.com>
>Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 4:09 PM
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] AAAAAAARGH!!!!!
>
>
> > I'll try to test the relay and perform the  other assorted tests you all
> > have suggested (thanks, by the way), but at the risk of sounding like 
>the
> > non-mechanic guy I am, what does the relay look like?  I went to some 
>kind
> > of MSD ready to run distributor and a single wire alternator, if that 
>helps.
> >
> > Sorry I'm so illiterate about this stuff.
> >
> > By the way, upon further testing (actually it was more like a few more
> > futile attempts to start the car, just in case the whole not-starting 
>thing
> > was just my imagination--it wasn't) I noticed when I first turn on the
> > ignition, the ammeter goes a bit negative for a second, then pops back 
>to a
> > slightly less negative position.  Then, when I turn the key to the start
> > position, there is no movement whatsoever from the ammeter and no sound.
> > Don't know if that's relevant or not.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: "Will Kooiman" <wkooiman at earthlink.net>
> >>To: "'John McKee'" <johnmckee at cox.net>,"'Christopher Kimball'"
> >><chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> >>CC: <deTomaso at realbig.com>
> >>Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] AAAAAAARGH!!!!!
> >>Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 17:12:49 -0500
> >>
> >>I vote for the starter solenoid/relay.
> >>
> >>I've mentioned this before. The starter relays available these days are
> >>crap.  Either use a mini starter that has an integral relay or get one 
>from
> >>a Ford dump truck (or maybe a big diesel, F350, F700, etc.).  They work 
>the
> >>same way as a standard relay, but they aren't cheap Taiwan crap.
> >>
> >>To test your relay, you could run a jumper cable from the starter side 
>of
> >>the relay to the battery side of the relay (while the car is in neutral 
>of
> >>course).  If it cranks, it's the relay.
> >>
> >>Will.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]

>On
> >>Behalf Of John McKee
> >>Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 4:06 PM
> >>To: Christopher Kimball
> >>Cc: deTomaso at realbig.com
> >>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] AAAAAAARGH!!!!!
> >>
> >>Chris,
> >>
> >>Double check all of the battery to starter connections.
> >>If you are not hearing the starter gear trying to engage I would be
> >>suspicious you are not getting enough juice back there or something is
> >>amiss
> >>
> >>with your "new starter and solenoid".  The new parts would be the first
> >>thing I would check.
> >>I know I always over look the small stuff so start with the simple 
>things
> >>and leave the outrageous thoughts (motor seized) for later tonight or 
>maybe
> >>2:00 am!
> >>;o)
> >>
> >>John
> >>4488
> >>
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Christopher Kimball" <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> >>To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >>Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 1:05 PM
> >>Subject: [DeTomaso] AAAAAAARGH!!!!!
> >>
> >>
> >> > Yesterday I drove my car home from the shop after new rotors were
> >> > installed
> >> > on the front.  This was really the first time I drove it any length
> >>after
> >> > the motor rebuild and all the other stuff that has been done to it 
>since
> >>I
> >> > bought it.
> >> >
> >> > Although it seemed to run great and sounded awesome,I noticed some
> >>coolant
> >> > overflowed into a parking lot on a stop on my way home, so this 
>morning
> >>I
> >> > checked the bottle with the pressure release cap and it was only half
> >>full
> >> > (that's the bottle with the temp sending unit on it).  I jacked the 
>car
> >>up
> >>
> >> > a
> >> > few inches in the back and refilled the bottle with 50/50 coolant.
> >> >
> >> > Here's the bad part:  I then tried to start the car and...NOTHING!!!
> >>The
> >> > gauges all light up and work, the battery is strong, but after just
> >> > installing a new starter, new solenoid, alternator, etc. the car is
> >> > DEAD!!!
> >> > No engine turnover or movement at all, no loud, audible noises when I
> >>turn
> >> > the key (although I think the ammeter moves negative when I do
> >>that)--just
> >> > an eerie silence.
> >> >
> >> > I guess I'll have AAA tow it into the shop tomorrow unless anyone can
> >>give
> >> > me any simple tests to try so I can determine what the problem is.  
>What
> >>a
> >> > bummer!
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> >
> >> > Chris
> >> >
> >> >
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><< startersolenoid.jpg >>

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