[DeTomaso] AAAAAAARGH!!!!!

Sun Jun 3 22:17:16 EDT 2007

The good news is I GOT MY CAR FIXED!  The bad news, according to your emial, 
is that I bought the new relay from, um, Autozone...  However, it was their 
best one, the"Gold" model made for a bigger engine than mine--a Ford 460 I 
think.

I hope it lasts longer than the NAPA one!

Thanks again for all your help--I'm now going to take my sons for a ride 
(one at a time, of course!) and hope we don't get stranded!

Chris

>From: "Will Kooiman" <wkooiman at earthlink.net>
>To: "'Christopher Kimball'" <chrisvkimball at msn.com>,<johnmckee at cox.net>
>CC: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] AAAAAAARGH!!!!!
>Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 20:47:29 -0500
>
>The type of car doesn't matter unless you're trying to keep it original
>looking.
>
>The starter relay works just like the relays we use for the fans and
>headlights.  It's just bigger since it has to handle more juice.
>
>There are 2 fat wires, and one or two small wires. The small wires trip the
>relay, similar to turning on a light switch. The fat wires run the current
>to start the starter.  You use the relay because otherwise, you'd need
>battery cable size wires in your steering column.
>
>I looked around for the p/n for my F-700 sized relay.  I couldn't find 
>them.
>I can describe it, though.  The normal relay is black or dark brown with 
>big
>studs on the sides and two small wires on the top.  The relay I have is 
>gray
>and has all 4 wires on top.  It is bigger around than the normal relay, and
>it seems to be a pound heavier.
>
>There are letters on each stud. There are also letters next to the studs on
>the original style relay.  The letters are the same, so just keep put the S
>on the S, and the I on the I, etc.
>
>You might also try an original style relay, but buy it at NAPA.  I've been
>told from some mechanic friends that they have higher quality parts.  Just
>stay away from the bargain Autozone type outlets.  I've had at least 3
>relays from Autozone fail in a short amount of time.  They replace them for
>free, but that doesn't help the frustration of being stranded.
>
>You might also try buying one from Ford.
>
>Will.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
>Behalf Of Christopher Kimball
>Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 7:26 PM
>To: johnmckee at cox.net
>Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] AAAAAAARGH!!!!!
>
>Dear John,
>
>Thank you for the picture!  I'll try the whack method next, but I did the
>tests the folks on the forum recommended and it turns out it is the relay,
>although mine looks very different than the picture you sent since all my
>electrics are new.  When I jumped across the relay, the motor turned over
>just great, so I can breathe a sigh of "it's not seized" relief!
>
>I called Schucks and they are open late tonight, so I was thinking about
>getting a solenoid for a Ford F-350 as was recommended, but the part number
>they had is S-63 and it's for either a 302 or another, larger size (I think
>she said 360, but for a Ford 460 would make more sense to me), but they
>didn't specify 351 Cleveland.  Will the one they have designed for the '72
>F-350 work for me, or should I take my new but non-functioning NAPA one 
>down
>
>there and have them cross reference it?  If I do that I might just end up
>with another one from Shuck's just as wimpy as the one I already have.
>
>Thanks again.
>
>Chris
>
>PS:  I'm actually amazed I was able to figure this out--I guess it just 
>goes
>
>to show the Beatles' song is right; "I get by with a little help from m
>friends, oh I'm gonna try with a little help from my friends, oh I'm gonna
>eventually know how to work on my Pantera's motors with a little help from
>my friends..."
>
>
>
>
> >From: "John McKee" <johnmckee at cox.net>
> >To: "Christopher Kimball" <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> >CC: <deTomaso at realbig.com>
> >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] AAAAAAARGH!!!!!
> >Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 16:38:08 -0700
> >
> >Chris,
> >
> >I am attaching a picture of my stock starter solenoid.
> >It is quite easy to see as I am standing where the motor would normally
> >sit.
> >See round black object on the far right side with a big battery cable
> >coming in one side and leaving the other side to connect to the starter.
> >If you do not have this type then it is probably integrated with the
> >starter.
> >Solenoids can sometimes just "stick" and my favorite fix is to give them
> >the ol' Fonzy whack with a screw driver and see if it will engage.
> >
> >John
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Christopher Kimball" <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> >To: <wkooiman at earthlink.net>; <johnmckee at cox.net>
> >Cc: <deTomaso at realbig.com>
> >Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 4:09 PM
> >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] AAAAAAARGH!!!!!
> >
> >
> > > I'll try to test the relay and perform the  other assorted tests you 
>all
> > > have suggested (thanks, by the way), but at the risk of sounding like
> >the
> > > non-mechanic guy I am, what does the relay look like?  I went to some
> >kind
> > > of MSD ready to run distributor and a single wire alternator, if that
> >helps.
> > >
> > > Sorry I'm so illiterate about this stuff.
> > >
> > > By the way, upon further testing (actually it was more like a few more
> > > futile attempts to start the car, just in case the whole not-starting
> >thing
> > > was just my imagination--it wasn't) I noticed when I first turn on the
> > > ignition, the ammeter goes a bit negative for a second, then pops back
> >to a
> > > slightly less negative position.  Then, when I turn the key to the 
>start
> > > position, there is no movement whatsoever from the ammeter and no 
>sound.
> > > Don't know if that's relevant or not.
> > >
> > > Thanks again,
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>From: "Will Kooiman" <wkooiman at earthlink.net>
> > >>To: "'John McKee'" <johnmckee at cox.net>,"'Christopher Kimball'"
> > >><chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> > >>CC: <deTomaso at realbig.com>
> > >>Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] AAAAAAARGH!!!!!
> > >>Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 17:12:49 -0500
> > >>
> > >>I vote for the starter solenoid/relay.
> > >>
> > >>I've mentioned this before. The starter relays available these days 
>are
> > >>crap.  Either use a mini starter that has an integral relay or get one
> >from
> > >>a Ford dump truck (or maybe a big diesel, F350, F700, etc.).  They 
>work
> >the
> > >>same way as a standard relay, but they aren't cheap Taiwan crap.
> > >>
> > >>To test your relay, you could run a jumper cable from the starter side
> >of
> > >>the relay to the battery side of the relay (while the car is in 
>neutral
> >of
> > >>course).  If it cranks, it's the relay.
> > >>
> > >>Will.
> > >>
> > >>-----Original Message-----
> > >>From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com 
>[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
>
> >On
> > >>Behalf Of John McKee
> > >>Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 4:06 PM
> > >>To: Christopher Kimball
> > >>Cc: deTomaso at realbig.com
> > >>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] AAAAAAARGH!!!!!
> > >>
> > >>Chris,
> > >>
> > >>Double check all of the battery to starter connections.
> > >>If you are not hearing the starter gear trying to engage I would be
> > >>suspicious you are not getting enough juice back there or something is
> > >>amiss
> > >>
> > >>with your "new starter and solenoid".  The new parts would be the 
>first
> > >>thing I would check.
> > >>I know I always over look the small stuff so start with the simple
> >things
> > >>and leave the outrageous thoughts (motor seized) for later tonight or
> >maybe
> > >>2:00 am!
> > >>;o)
> > >>
> > >>John
> > >>4488
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>----- Original Message -----
> > >>From: "Christopher Kimball" <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> > >>To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> > >>Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 1:05 PM
> > >>Subject: [DeTomaso] AAAAAAARGH!!!!!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Yesterday I drove my car home from the shop after new rotors were
> > >> > installed
> > >> > on the front.  This was really the first time I drove it any length
> > >>after
> > >> > the motor rebuild and all the other stuff that has been done to it
> >since
> > >>I
> > >> > bought it.
> > >> >
> > >> > Although it seemed to run great and sounded awesome,I noticed some
> > >>coolant
> > >> > overflowed into a parking lot on a stop on my way home, so this
> >morning
> > >>I
> > >> > checked the bottle with the pressure release cap and it was only 
>half
> > >>full
> > >> > (that's the bottle with the temp sending unit on it).  I jacked the
> >car
> > >>up
> > >>
> > >> > a
> > >> > few inches in the back and refilled the bottle with 50/50 coolant.
> > >> >
> > >> > Here's the bad part:  I then tried to start the car 
>and...NOTHING!!!
> > >>The
> > >> > gauges all light up and work, the battery is strong, but after just
> > >> > installing a new starter, new solenoid, alternator, etc. the car is
> > >> > DEAD!!!
> > >> > No engine turnover or movement at all, no loud, audible noises when 
>I
> > >>turn
> > >> > the key (although I think the ammeter moves negative when I do
> > >>that)--just
> > >> > an eerie silence.
> > >> >
> > >> > I guess I'll have AAA tow it into the shop tomorrow unless anyone 
>can
> > >>give
> > >> > me any simple tests to try so I can determine what the problem is.
> >What
> > >>a
> > >> > bummer!
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks,
> > >> >
> > >> > Chris
> > >> >
> > >> >
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> ><< startersolenoid.jpg >>
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