July 2016 - DeTomaso - detomasolist.com

Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system
by bill 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

Did you ever get the alternator problem sorted ? I drive my car much more than most, dare I say 90%, the PPC set up works great and I will stand by it. CheersBill MooreCalgary -------- Original message --------From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 2016-07-26 5:33 PM (GMT-07:00) To: klckmac(a)msn.com, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system In a message dated 7/26/16 8 41 31, klckmac(a)msn.com writes: > Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube > sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and > they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would > like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other > dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup. > Ken, Lots of people are proposing a $1500 fix to a $200 problem. For sure, that would work, but is it necessary? No. The first thing you need to do is find another radiator shop. The quote they gave you is absurd. Likely they are proposing an entirely new core for your existing tanks, which amounts to buying a whole new radiator. If your core is well and truly shot, then yes, you might as well just get a new radiator, but in that case I would just buy another one like you have now. By way of contrast to the megabucks suggestions, consider this: A few years ago, Wilkinson gave Lori an old Hall radiator for free. He had removed it from a customer's car when that guy 'upgraded' to a megabuck Fluidyne radiator and sucker fan setup. Steve actually offered me the choice of several old radiators, and I took the best-looking one, knowing it needed work. I brought it to a radiator shop out in the country a half-hour from my house. They pressure-tested it and found several leaks, from failures in the brazing around the drain petcock caused by overtightening, and from the junction of the core and one of the end tanks. They fixed all the leaks, pressure-tested it, painted it and gave it back to me, looking as good as new and guaranteed to work. For this, they charged me FORTY dollars. Not $650, not anything close. That radiator, with Hall Meriah fans, keeps her car running at a rock-solid 180 degrees in all conditions, including extended periods of idling in Las Vegas traffic with ambient temps nearing 100 degrees, and has been doing so now for years. Yes, you could spend a ton of money on an all-new setup. But as long as your existing core is good (and why wouldn't it be?), you should be able to get minor leaks repaired easily for a fraction of the cost of buying a new Hall replacement radiator, never mind the megabuck setup. One tremendous advantage of a brass radiator (any brass radiator) is that it can normally be repaired easily if it suffers damage when you're on the road. The aluminum radiators are glued together and normally not easily repaired--if they can be repaired at all. So while Hall recently failed to warranty their product per Chuck's testimony, at least their product is infinitely repairable. A Mangusta owner from England who was driving to the south of France earlier this month wound up going home on a tow truck because his radiator sprung a leak and it dribbled much of his coolant overboard. He failed to notice the water temp increase, but the subsequent oil temp increase and Expensive Noises from the engine got his attention! Had he been paying attention and thought about the problem a little bit, he could have easily had the car repaired and saved his vacation, since apparently the engine is actually unhurt and was simply rattling a bit due to the lifters not lifting as much due to the hot, thin oil. As it is, since he's not mechanically savvy he took the safe option and had the car towed back to England. But if he had an aluminum radiator, likely that would have been his only recourse. Just FWIW.... Mike In a message dated 7/26/16 8 41 31, klckmac(a)msn.com writes: Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup. Ken, Lots of people are proposing a $1500 fix to a $200 problem. For sure, that would work, but is it necessary? No. The first thing you need to do is find another radiator shop. The quote they gave you is absurd. Likely they are proposing an entirely new core for your existing tanks, which amounts to buying a whole new radiator. If your core is well and truly shot, then yes, you might as well just get a new radiator, but in that case I would just buy another one like you have now. By way of contrast to the megabucks suggestions, consider this: A few years ago, Wilkinson gave Lori an old Hall radiator for free. He had removed it from a customer's car when that guy 'upgraded' to a megabuck Fluidyne radiator and sucker fan setup. Steve actually offered me the choice of several old radiators, and I took the best-looking one, knowing it needed work. I brought it to a radiator shop out in the country a half-hour from my house. They pressure-tested it and found several leaks, from failures in the brazing around the drain petcock caused by overtightening, and from the junction of the core and one of the end tanks. They fixed all the leaks, pressure-tested it, painted it and gave it back to me, looking as good as new and guaranteed to work. For this, they charged me FORTY dollars. Not $650, not anything close. That radiator, with Hall Meriah fans, keeps her car running at a rock-solid 180 degrees in all conditions, including extended periods of idling in Las Vegas traffic with ambient temps nearing 100 degrees, and has been doing so now for years. Yes, you could spend a ton of money on an all-new setup. But as long as your existing core is good (and why wouldn't it be?), you should be able to get minor leaks repaired easily for a fraction of the cost of buying a new Hall replacement radiator, never mind the megabuck setup. One tremendous advantage of a brass radiator (any brass radiator) is that it can normally be repaired easily if it suffers damage when you're on the road. The aluminum radiators are glued together and normally not easily repaired--if they can be repaired at all. So while Hall recently failed to warranty their product per Chuck's testimony, at least their product is infinitely repairable. A Mangusta owner from England who was driving to the south of France earlier this month wound up going home on a tow truck because his radiator sprung a leak and it dribbled much of his coolant overboard. He failed to notice the water temp increase, but the subsequent oil temp increase and Expensive Noises from the engine got his attention! Had he been paying attention and thought about the problem a little bit, he could have easily had the car repaired and saved his vacation, since apparently the engine is actually unhurt and was simply rattling a bit due to the lifters not lifting as much due to the hot, thin oil. As it is, since he's not mechanically savvy he took the safe option and had the car towed back to England. But if he had an aluminum radiator, likely that would have been his only recourse. Just FWIW.... Mike _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Did you ever get the alternator problem sorted ? I drive my car much more than most, dare I say 90%, the PPC set up works great and I will stand by it. Cheers Bill Moore Calgary -------- Original message -------- From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Date: 2016-07-26 5:33 PM (GMT-07:00) To: klckmac(a)msn.com, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system In a message dated 7/26/16 8 41 31, klckmac(a)msn.com writes: > Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube > sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and > they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would > like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other > dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup. > Ken, Lots of people are proposing a $1500 fix to a $200 problem. For sure, that would work, but is it necessary? No. The first thing you need to do is find another radiator shop. The quote they gave you is absurd. Likely they are proposing an entirely new core for your existing tanks, which amounts to buying a whole new radiator. If your core is well and truly shot, then yes, you might as well just get a new radiator, but in that case I would just buy another one like you have now. By way of contrast to the megabucks suggestions, consider this: A few years ago, Wilkinson gave Lori an old Hall radiator for free. He had removed it from a customer's car when that guy 'upgraded' to a megabuck Fluidyne radiator and sucker fan setup. Steve actually offered me the choice of several old radiators, and I took the best-looking one, knowing it needed work. I brought it to a radiator shop out in the country a half-hour from my house. They pressure-tested it and found several leaks, from failures in the brazing around the drain petcock caused by overtightening, and from the junction of the core and one of the end tanks. They fixed all the leaks, pressure-tested it, painted it and gave it back to me, looking as good as new and guaranteed to work. For this, they charged me FORTY dollars. Not $650, not anything close. That radiator, with Hall Meriah fans, keeps her car running at a rock-solid 180 degrees in all conditions, including extended periods of idling in Las Vegas traffic with ambient temps nearing 100 degrees, and has been doing so now for years. Yes, you could spend a ton of money on an all-new setup. But as long as your existing core is good (and why wouldn't it be?), you should be able to get minor leaks repaired easily for a fraction of the cost of buying a new Hall replacement radiator, never mind the megabuck setup. One tremendous advantage of a brass radiator (any brass radiator) is that it can normally be repaired easily if it suffers damage when you're on the road. The aluminum radiators are glued together and normally not easily repaired--if they can be repaired at all. So while Hall recently failed to warranty their product per Chuck's testimony, at least their product is infinitely repairable. A Mangusta owner from England who was driving to the south of France earlier this month wound up going home on a tow truck because his radiator sprung a leak and it dribbled much of his coolant overboard. He failed to notice the water temp increase, but the subsequent oil temp increase and Expensive Noises from the engine got his attention! Had he been paying attention and thought about the problem a little bit, he could have easily had the car repaired and saved his vacation, since apparently the engine is actually unhurt and was simply rattling a bit due to the lifters not lifting as much due to the hot, thin oil. As it is, since he's not mechanically savvy he took the safe option and had the car towed back to England. But if he had an aluminum radiator, likely that would have been his only recourse. Just FWIW.... Mike In a message dated 7/26/16 8 41 31, klckmac(a)msn.com writes: Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup. Ken, Lots of people are proposing a $1500 fix to a $200 problem. For sure, that would work, but is it necessary? No. The first thing you need to do is find another radiator shop. The quote they gave you is absurd. Likely they are proposing an entirely new core for your existing tanks, which amounts to buying a whole new radiator. If your core is well and truly shot, then yes, you might as well just get a new radiator, but in that case I would just buy another one like you have now. By way of contrast to the megabucks suggestions, consider this: A few years ago, Wilkinson gave Lori an old Hall radiator for free. He had removed it from a customer's car when that guy 'upgraded' to a megabuck Fluidyne radiator and sucker fan setup. Steve actually offered me the choice of several old radiators, and I took the best-looking one, knowing it needed work. I brought it to a radiator shop out in the country a half-hour from my house. They pressure-tested it and found several leaks, from failures in the brazing around the drain petcock caused by overtightening, and from the junction of the core and one of the end tanks. They fixed all the leaks, pressure-tested it, painted it and gave it back to me, looking as good as new and guaranteed to work. For this, they charged me FORTY dollars. Not $650, not anything close. That radiator, with Hall Meriah fans, keeps her car running at a rock-solid 180 degrees in all conditions, including extended periods of idling in Las Vegas traffic with ambient temps nearing 100 degrees, and has been doing so now for years. Yes, you could spend a ton of money on an all-new setup. But as long as your existing core is good (and why wouldn't it be?), you should be able to get minor leaks repaired easily for a fraction of the cost of buying a new Hall replacement radiator, never mind the megabuck setup. One tremendous advantage of a brass radiator (any brass radiator) is that it can normally be repaired easily if it suffers damage when you're on the road. The aluminum radiators are glued together and normally not easily repaired--if they can be repaired at all. So while Hall recently failed to warranty their product per Chuck's testimony, at least their product is infinitely repairable. A Mangusta owner from England who was driving to the south of France earlier this month wound up going home on a tow truck because his radiator sprung a leak and it dribbled much of his coolant overboard. He failed to notice the water temp increase, but the subsequent oil temp increase and Expensive Noises from the engine got his attention! Had he been paying attention and thought about the problem a little bit, he could have easily had the car repaired and saved his vacation, since apparently the engine is actually unhurt and was simply rattling a bit due to the lifters not lifting as much due to the hot, thin oil. As it is, since he's not mechanically savvy he took the safe option and had the car towed back to England. But if he had an aluminum radiator, likely that would have been his only recourse. Just FWIW.... Mike _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

1 0

Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system
by bill 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

Just get a PPC rad w/ suckered and be done with it. CheersBill MooreCalgary -------- Original message --------From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf(a)embarqmail.com> Date: 2016-07-26 4:48 PM (GMT-07:00) To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system YES, but being just one of the many modifications John T made. I was think something that would not be noticeable and use the existing tanks. Attached description ; The top being the original where the pump suction decreases with increased flow. The center would have pump suction increasing with coolant temperature and The bottom would have pump suction constant (requires adding a recovery tank) Has anyone ever measured the dP/flow across their radiator? JFB From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 16:12 PM To: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.; detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system Joe, I think that what John describes here? http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn.pdf _____ From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf(a)embarqmail.com> To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system To me, having the pressure cap on the pump/block discharge side would be the "cause" for cavitation at the pump suction, with the increase resistance of the radiator the contributor. Replumbing the coolant to place the pressure cap on a true expansion tank on the pump suction seems to be desirable. Thus, keeping the pump suction at a constant, not decreasing pressure with increasing flow. Turbulence in the pump inlet "elbow" would also contribute to cavitation and using a vane in that elbow be beneficial. JFB -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green via DeTomaso Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 15:20 PM To: L GRAY; hoppe1(a)cox.net Cc: detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system ...cause cavitation at high RPM in the water pump in a Pantera... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. YES, but being just one of the many modifications John T made. I was think something that would not be noticeable and use the existing tanks. Attached description ; The top being the original where the pump suction decreases with increased flow. The center would have pump suction increasing with coolant temperature and The bottom would have pump suction constant (requires adding a recovery tank) Has anyone ever measured the dP/flow across their radiator? JFB From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 16:12 PM To: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.; detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system Joe, I think that what John describes here? [1]http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn. pdf _______________________________________________________________________ From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <[2]byrdjf(a)embarqmail.com> To: [3]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system To me, having the pressure cap on the pump/block discharge side would be the "cause" for cavitation at the pump suction, with the increase resistance of the radiator the contributor. Replumbing the coolant to place the pressure cap on a true expansion tank on the pump suction seems to be desirable. Thus, keeping the pump suction at a constant, not decreasing pressure with increasing flow. Turbulence in the pump inlet "elbow" would also contribute to cavitation and using a vane in that elbow be beneficial. JFB -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:[4]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green via DeTomaso Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 15:20 PM To: L GRAY; [5]hoppe1(a)cox.net Cc: detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system ...cause cavitation at high RPM in the water pump in a Pantera... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [6]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn.pdf 2. mailto:byrdjf@embarqmail.com 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:hoppe1@cox.net 6. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Just get a PPC rad w/ suckered and be done with it. Cheers Bill Moore Calgary -------- Original message -------- From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf(a)embarqmail.com> Date: 2016-07-26 4:48 PM (GMT-07:00) To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system YES, but being just one of the many modifications John T made. I was think something that would not be noticeable and use the existing tanks. Attached description ; The top being the original where the pump suction decreases with increased flow. The center would have pump suction increasing with coolant temperature and The bottom would have pump suction constant (requires adding a recovery tank) Has anyone ever measured the dP/flow across their radiator? JFB From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 16:12 PM To: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.; detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system Joe, I think that what John describes here? http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn.pdf _____ From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf(a)embarqmail.com> To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system To me, having the pressure cap on the pump/block discharge side would be the "cause" for cavitation at the pump suction, with the increase resistance of the radiator the contributor. Replumbing the coolant to place the pressure cap on a true expansion tank on the pump suction seems to be desirable. Thus, keeping the pump suction at a constant, not decreasing pressure with increasing flow. Turbulence in the pump inlet "elbow" would also contribute to cavitation and using a vane in that elbow be beneficial. JFB -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green via DeTomaso Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 15:20 PM To: L GRAY; hoppe1(a)cox.net Cc: detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system ...cause cavitation at high RPM in the water pump in a Pantera... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. YES, but being just one of the many modifications John T made. I was think something that would not be noticeable and use the existing tanks. Attached description ; The top being the original where the pump suction decreases with increased flow. The center would have pump suction increasing with coolant temperature and The bottom would have pump suction constant (requires adding a recovery tank) Has anyone ever measured the dP/flow across their radiator? JFB From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 16:12 PM To: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.; detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system Joe, I think that what John describes here? [1]http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn. pdf _______________________________________________________________________ From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <[2]byrdjf(a)embarqmail.com> To: [3]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system To me, having the pressure cap on the pump/block discharge side would be the "cause" for cavitation at the pump suction, with the increase resistance of the radiator the contributor. Replumbing the coolant to place the pressure cap on a true expansion tank on the pump suction seems to be desirable. Thus, keeping the pump suction at a constant, not decreasing pressure with increasing flow. Turbulence in the pump inlet "elbow" would also contribute to cavitation and using a vane in that elbow be beneficial. JFB -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:[4]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Ken Green via DeTomaso Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 15:20 PM To: L GRAY; [5]hoppe1(a)cox.net Cc: detomaso Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system ...cause cavitation at high RPM in the water pump in a Pantera... _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [6]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn.pdf 2. mailto:byrdjf@embarqmail.com 3. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:hoppe1@cox.net 6. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

1 0

Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system
by cengles＠cox.net 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

Dear Bud, Now that is an excellent testimonial. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:19 AM, B Hower via DeTomaso wrote: > My OEM was damaged beyond repair. I chose a Dennis Q, / Ron Davis with > twin fans from Dennis also... I installed without major problems. The > hoses both were reinstalled without having to modify them. Being 3400 > only had one wire for fans a second was run. Temperature switches are > 170 and 180 degree for fan control. I love this set up. My OEM needed > cleaned even before it got damaged and gave me overheating caution on > hot days. I just drove Lolita from KS to NY and back in very hot > weather. After a long run on I-90 I did an IR check at hose in front > of surge tank, reading was 170 degrees. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like > there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! ) > > From: Ken and Lela MacArthur <klckmac(a)msn.com> > To: "detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com" > <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 10:41 > AM > Subject: [DeTomaso] Cooling system > All, > > Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless > tube > sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for > repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for > that > price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit > like > PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular > setup. > > Thanks for the help. > > Ken MacArthur > > 72L 4443 > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > or approve the archiving of list messages. > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > or approve the archiving of list messages.

5 6

Cooling system
by Larry Finch 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

The current Quella/Ron Davis offering is a double-pass. They once offered a triple-pass, now discontinued. Larry

3 2

Fwd: U.S. Copyright Violations
by Ed Mendez 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

More toxic spew. If he is still the active president of the club how can he say in the same breath he is going to sue the club that he president of? Is he suing himself ? Begin forwarded message: From: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga(a)gmail.com> Date: July 25, 2016 1:42:05 PM To: Joe Stockett <qrtlow(a)gmail.com>,Ed Mendez <edducati(a)mac.com>,John Buckman <jb841(a)cox.net>,Judith McCartney <jpoca2(a)hotmail.com>,"RREIDCPA(a)aol.com" <RREIDCPA(a)aol.com> Subject: U.S. Copyright Violations Be advised that POCA.Com continues to violate US Copyright Law by displaying /using unaiuthorized content created by me in the form of text, graphics, photos and design elements. You have been given 96 hours to remove them and have not done so. Each violation will be noted and listed as a separate violation in a complaint to be filed with the US Eastern Judicial Circuit of the United States Federal District on Tuesday, July 26, 2016. This is the last time I'm going to tell you to remove everything from the website. You are not going to use my work to entice people into that toxic and divisive club. Copyright A bundle of intangible rights granted by statute to the author or originator of certain literary or artistic productions, whereby,for a limited period, the exclusive privilege is given to that person (or to any party to whom he or she transfers ownership) to make copies of the same for publication and sale. A copyright is a legal device that gives the creator of a literary, artistic, musical, or other creative work the sole right to publish and sell that work. Copyright owners have the right to control the reproduction of their work, including the right to receive payment for that reproduction. An author may grant or sell those rights to others, including publishers or recording companies. Violation of a copyright is called infringement. Summary of Civil and Criminal Penalties for Violation of Federal Copyright Laws Copyright infringement is the act of exercising, without permission or legal authority, one or more of the exclusive rights granted to the copyright owner under section 106 of the Copyright Act (Title 17 of the United States Code). These rights include the right to reproduce or distribute a copyrighted work. In the file-sharing context, downloading or uploading substantial parts of a copyrighted work without authority constitutes an infringement. Penalties for copyright infringement include civil and criminal penalties. In general, anyone found liable for civil copyright infringement may be ordered to pay either actual damages or "statutory" damages affixed at not less than $750 and not more than $30,000 per work infringed. For "willful" infringement, a court may award up to $150,000 per work infringed. A court can, in its discretion, also assess costs and attorneys' fees. For details, see Title 17, United States Code, Sections 504, 505. Willful copyright infringement can also result in criminal penalties, including imprisonment of up to five years and fines of up to $250,000 per offense. For more information, please see the Web site of the U.S. Copyright Office atwww.copyright.gov, especially their FAQ's at www.copyright.gov/help/faq. -- Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia michael(a)michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 More toxic spew. If he is still the active president of the club how can he say in the same breath he is going to sue the club that he president of? Is he suing himself ? Begin forwarded message: From: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga(a)gmail.com> Date: July 25, 2016 1:42:05 PM To: Joe Stockett <qrtlow(a)gmail.com>,Ed Mendez <edducati(a)mac.com>,John Buckman <jb841(a)cox.net>,Judith McCartney <jpoca2(a)hotmail.com>,"RREIDCPA(a)aol.com" <RREIDCPA(a)aol.com> Subject: U.S. Copyright Violations Be advised that [1]POCA.Com continues to violate US Copyright Law by displaying /using unaiuthorized content created by me in the form of text, graphics, photos and design elements. You have been given 96 hours to remove them and have not done so. Each violation will be noted and listed as a separate violation in a complaint to be filed with the US Eastern Judicial Circuit of the United States Federal District on Tuesday, July 26, 2016. This is the last time I'm going to tell you to remove everything from the website. You are not going to use my work to entice people into that toxic and divisive club. Copyright A bundle of intangible rights granted by statute to the author or origi nator of certain literary or artistic productions, whereby,for a limite d period, the exclusive privilege is given to that person (or to any pa rty to whom he or she transfers ownership) to make copies of the same f or publication and sale. A copyright is a legal device that gives the creator of a literary, art istic, musical, or other creative work the sole right to publish and se ll that work. Copyright owners have the right to control the reproducti on of their work, including the right to receive payment for that repro duction. An author may grant or sell those rights to others, including publishers or recording companies. Violation of a copyright is called i nfringement. Summary of Civil and Criminal Penalties for Violation of Federal Copyright Laws Copyright infringement is the act of exercising, without permission or legal authority, one or more of the exclusive rights granted to the copyright owner under section 106 of the Copyright Act (Title 17 of the United States Code). These rights include the right to reproduce or distribute a copyrighted work. In the file-sharing context, downloading or uploading substantial parts of a copyrighted work without authority constitutes an infringement. Penalties for copyright infringement include civil and criminal penalties. In general, anyone found liable for civil copyright infringement may be ordered to pay either actual damages or "statutory" damages affixed at not less than $750 and not more than $30,000 per work infringed. For "willful" infringement, a court may award up to $150,000 per work infringed. A court can, in its discretion, also assess costs and attorneys' fees. For details, see Title 17, United States Code, Sections 504, 505. Willful copyright infringement can also result in criminal penalties, including imprisonment of up to five years and fines of up to $250,000 per offense. For more information, please see the Web site of the U.S. Copyright Office at[2]www.copyright.gov, especially their FAQ's at [3]www.copyright.gov/help/faq. -- Michael L. Shortt Savannah, Georgia [4]michael(a)michaelshortt.com 912-232-9390 References 1. http://POCA.Com/ 2. http://www.copyright.gov/ 3. http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq 4. mailto:michael@michaelshortt.com

3 2

Cooling system
by Ken and Lela MacArthur 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

All, Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup. Thanks for the help. Ken MacArthur 72L 4443 All, Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup. Thanks for the help. Ken MacArthur 72L 4443

6 5

Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system
by Tom Cabanski 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

My Fluidyne has been in my car for 10 years without a problem. tom My Fluidyne has been in my car for 10 years without a problem. tom

2 1

Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system
by bill＠incendium.com 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

Ken: Please call Dennis at Pantera Performance Center, Castle Rock, CO. 303 660 9897. You will be happy. I have over 20,000 miles on my PPC cooling system without any problems and it will not overheat. CheersBill MooreCalgary -------- Original message --------From: Julian Kift <julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> Date: 2016-07-26 9:47 AM (GMT-07:00) To: Ken and Lela MacArthur <klckmac(a)msn.com>, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system That seems alike a lot, I'd shop around, but ultimately your repaired Hall radiator will be far better prospect than a new aluminum radiator IMO. Julian ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Ken and Lela MacArthur <klckmac(a)msn.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 8:41 AM To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Cooling system All, Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup. Thanks for the help. Ken MacArthur 72L 4443 That seems alike a lot, I'd shop around, but ultimately your repaired Hall radiator will be far better prospect than a new aluminum radiator IMO. Julian __________________________________________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Ken and Lela MacArthur <klckmac(a)msn.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 8:41 AM To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Cooling system All, Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup. Thanks for the help. Ken MacArthur 72L 4443 _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. Ken: Please call Dennis at Pantera Performance Center, Castle Rock, CO. 303 660 9897. You will be happy. I have over 20,000 miles on my PPC cooling system without any problems and it will not overheat. Cheers Bill Moore Calgary -------- Original message -------- From: Julian Kift <julian_kift(a)hotmail.com> Date: 2016-07-26 9:47 AM (GMT-07:00) To: Ken and Lela MacArthur <klckmac(a)msn.com>, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system That seems alike a lot, I'd shop around, but ultimately your repaired Hall radiator will be far better prospect than a new aluminum radiator IMO. Julian ________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Ken and Lela MacArthur <klckmac(a)msn.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 8:41 AM To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Cooling system All, Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup. Thanks for the help. Ken MacArthur 72L 4443 That seems alike a lot, I'd shop around, but ultimately your repaired Hall radiator will be far better prospect than a new aluminum radiator IMO. Julian __________________________________________________________________ From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Ken and Lela MacArthur <klckmac(a)msn.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 8:41 AM To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Cooling system All, Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup. Thanks for the help. Ken MacArthur 72L 4443 _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

1 0

FW: Cooling system
by Larry - Ohio Time 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

<< I just drove Lolita from KS to NY and back>> And you did not stop for lunch this time?? Larry (sad) - Cleveland -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of B Hower via DeTomaso Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 12:20 PM To: Ken and Lela MacArthur; detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system My OEM was damaged beyond repair. I chose a Dennis Q, / Ron Davis with twin fans from Dennis also... I installed without major problems. The hoses both were reinstalled without having to modify them. Being 3400 only had one wire for fans a second was run. Temperature switches are 170 and 180 degree for fan control. I love this set up. My OEM needed cleaned even before it got damaged and gave me overheating caution on hot days. I just drove Lolita from KS to NY and back in very hot weather. After a long run on I-90 I did an IR check at hose in front of surge tank, reading was 170 degrees. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! ) From: Ken and Lela MacArthur <klckmac(a)msn.com> To: "detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 10:41 AM Subject: [DeTomaso] Cooling system All, Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless tube sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for that price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit like PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular setup. Thanks for the help. Ken MacArthur 72L 4443 _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

1 0

Re: [DeTomaso] Cooling system
by cengles＠cox.net 26 Jul '16

26 Jul '16

Dear Forum, This reminded me that one of my Pantera friends here, just installed a new Hall Pantera radiator in his newly restored Pantera, only to have it develop a leak after a few months and several hundred miles of gentlemanly use. No warranty. Repairs were surprisingly expensive and more than I would have guessed. Why I do not know. I do know that the old fashioned brass radiators in my two Panteras are working well. One came from Pantera Performance about two decades ago and the other came from Pantera East shortly thereafter. FWIW. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:06 AM, Jim Wallace via DeTomaso wrote: > Ken, > I had the same problem a few years back. I have been through two hall > radiators and the cost to repair was huge with no warranty. I > replaced it with an aluminum one and have had terrific luck. No more > leaks and it keeps the engine cool. > > Jim > > From: Ken and Lela MacArthur <klckmac(a)msn.com> > To: "detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com" > <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 11:41 > AM > Subject: [DeTomaso] Cooling system > All, > > Looking for advice on the newer aluminum radiators and stainless > tube > sets offered out there. I just took my OLD Hall brass one in for > repairs and they want $650 for a re-do. I could get a new one for > that > price, but would like to know who has upgraded to a turn key kit > like > PIM offers or other dealer and if you would recommend any particular > setup. > > Thanks for the help. > > Ken MacArthur > > 72L 4443 > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > or approve the archiving of list messages. > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > or approve the archiving of list messages.

1 0