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    As I recall (and I can't find the link right now), the guy slammed
    into a Jaguar first.<br>
    ... and the kids just laughed their asses off.  Be careful how you
    "show off," it might backfire.<br>
    <br>
    Asa Jay<br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************     
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.racingagainstautism.com">http://www.racingagainstautism.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.teampanteraracing.com">http://www.teampanteraracing.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism">http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism</a></pre>
    <br>
    On 11/23/2013 8:41 AM, Christopher Kimball wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:BAY404-EAS34393D2D6D6AF5F62E8BC1DBCE30@phx.gbl"
      type="cite">
      <div>Interestingly, in a recent edition of Hagerty's on-line
        magazine, they gave the example of a guy in a hot muscle-car who
        was goaded into showing off by a couple of high-school students,
        and burned rubber right into the side of an ice-cream parlor.
         They paid the claim in full, and wrote that the moral of the
        story was not to show off.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I found it very interesting that they would not only use that
        example, but that they would use it to show one of their paid
        claims.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Sincerely,</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Chris<br>
        <br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:36 AM, "Will Kooiman" <<a
          moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:will.kooiman@gmail.com">will.kooiman@gmail.com</a>>
        wrote:<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div>
          <div>
            <div>
              <div>I understand their logic.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>How many stories have we heard about someone wrecking
                a modified car (Pantera or otherwise) because they
                couldn't handle the HP?</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>And sometimes they do it on a track, and claim it
                happened on the way to the track.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Or they wreck showing out, and call it an accident.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>A car engineered for the HP (vs. modified by owner)
                should be safer, and while it is true that it isn't
                always, it is a reasonable assumption made by Hagerty.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Hagerty could rely on actual losses, bet it is
                cheaper to make this assumption.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Think about your USAA insurance.  When USAA was
                founded, the assumption was that Army/Air Force officers
                would have lower losses, due to being more responsible.
                 For the first several years, officers got money back.
                 Their subscriber savings account (SSA) grew, collected
                interest, and the interest was greater than their actual
                losses.  So, if you had USAA insurance, your net cost
                was negative.  But then USAA grew, the membership
                qualifications expanded, USAA hired adjusters, etc.,
                just like a normal insurance company.  Now they are even
                advertising on TV.  And the rates and coverage is only
                slightly better than most insurance companies.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>My point is USAA is still an excellent company, but
                their original plan wasn't fair.  All officers are not
                responsible.  But most are, so that's what allowed them
                to provide great rates.</div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                    font-size: 14px;"><font class="Apple-style-span"
                      color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span"
                        face="Calibri">--</font></font></div>
                  <div style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;
                    font-size: 14px;"><span class="Apple-style-span"
                      style="font-family: Calibri;">Will</span></div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
            <div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;
              text-align: left; color: black; border-width: 1pt medium
              medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color:
              rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color
              -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><span
                style="font-weight: bold;">From: </span> <<a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:shawkins777@comcast.net">shawkins777@comcast.net</a>><br>
              <span style="font-weight: bold;">Date: </span> Saturday,
              November 23, 2013 6:10 AM<br>
              <span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc: </span> <<a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:detomaso@poca.com">detomaso@poca.com</a>><br>
              <span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject: </span> Re:
              [DeTomaso] Insurance increase<br>
            </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color:
                  rgb(0, 0, 0);">Your assuming they sell the same policy
                  in every state but, every state has difference rules
                  and regulations.<br>
                  <br>
                  Steve<br>
                  <br>
                  <hr id="zwchr"><b>From: </b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com">MikeLDrew@aol.com</a><br>
                  <b>To: </b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:asajay@asajay.com">asajay@asajay.com</a>,
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:detomaso@poca.com">detomaso@poca.com</a><br>
                  <b>Sent: </b>Saturday, November 23, 2013 1:41:39 AM<br>
                  <b>Subject: </b>Re: [DeTomaso] Insurance increase<br>
                  <br>
                  <font face="arial,helvetica"><font size="2"
                      color="#000000" face="Geneva"><br>
                      In a message dated 11/20/13 20 38 14, <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:asajay@asajay.com">asajay@asajay.com</a>
                      writes:<br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                    </font>
                    <blockquote cite="" style="border-left: 2px solid
                      rgb(0, 0, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-right:
                      0px; padding-left: 5px;"><font size="2"
                        color="#000000" face="Geneva">I got an
                        unsolicited phone call from them today.  The
                        person who spoke with me had seen an email
                        trail... and mentioned "Mike Drew."  I don't
                        think Mike was the source, but that was the clue
                        they probably have eyes into this list.  It's
                        the -only- place I've made any comment, and as I
                        recall... never mentioned their name, until
                        now.  Of course Mike Drew hit the nail on the
                        head when he said I'd been "Hagerty'ed."<br>
                      </font></blockquote>
                    <font size="2" color="#000000" face="Geneva"><br>
                      <br>
                      >>>I certainly never contacted them, but
                      presumably one of their customers on the forum has
                      read this info and called them up to ask "WTF?"<br>
                      <br>
                      The sad thing is, I really like the company.  They
                      apparently have great service, and without a doubt
                      they contribute more than others do to the hobby
                      on all levels (I proudly have several free Hagerty
                      hats and have eaten more than my share of free
                      donuts at Pebble Beach, to name but one example). 
                      So as a company, they seem great.  But their
                      underwriting standards and policies are just
                      insane.<br>
                      <br>
                      Here's a fer-instance.  Let's say you have a
                      bone-stock 1969 L78 Camaro, fitted from the
                      factory with a 396 rat motor that made, say, 375+
                      hp.  Your neighbor has a plain-jane Camaro with a
                      350 engine, which was factory-rated at 290 hp.  He
                      put a different intake and carb on it, changed the
                      cam, and now it makes 350 hp.  It's still 25 hp
                      less than yours, but yours is stock so you get to
                      pay $4 per $1000 of coverage, and his is modified
                      so he gets to pay $9 per $1000 of coverage, on
                      what are otherwise identical cars.<br>
                      <br>
                      How screwed up is that?<br>
                      <br>
                      It's clear that Hagerty is aiming at a very
                      specific demographic in the collector car
                      world--the guy who has a bone-stock, original car,
                      of whatever specification or age.  There's nothing
                      wrong with that, but I do think it is deeply
                      unfair to penalize people like us so arbitrarily
                      and capriciously.  <br>
                      <br>
                      Fortunately, there are plenty of other options
                      available to us in the marketplace, so if we are
                      educated consumers, we can make choices that are
                      best for us.  In some cases, that choice may even
                      be to continue to pay more for your existing
                      policy (for instance, if you have a claims history
                      and your rates were *not* raised, you may find
                      that other insurers ding you for having a claims
                      history).<br>
                      <br>
                      Mike</font><br>
                    _______________________________________________<br>
                    <br>
                    Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA<br>
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                  </font></div>
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          </span>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">
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Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

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</pre>
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