[DeTomaso] Pantera Aviad pan
Jeff Kimball
jgkrenton at comcast.net
Tue Jun 18 23:02:54 EDT 2024
All:
I've read all this discussion with a smattering of interest and I suspect one of the critical points that should be included has been missed so far:
The level of oil in the pan needs to be below the windage tray when the engine is running.
When I "calibrated" my dip stick years ago I made sure that the "full" mark was essentially even with the windage tray. On my old "Hall" pan, this was just a little less than 8 quarts. I suspect if the oil is a bit above the windage tray when the engine is off long enough for all the oil to drain back, being a bit above the windage tray isn't a big deal. This is because once the engine starts a significant amount of oil is in the upper engine lowering the oil level in the pan, allowing the crank to turn without hitting the oil in the pan.
And yes, my dip stick has the long spring section brazed into the middle of it.
For your amusement.
Jeff/2467
> On 06/15/2024 7:36 AM PDT steve snclocks.com <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
>
>
> Way back when I installed a custom-made 8 qt oil pan as part of the engine build for our car. The long dip-stick made no sense, so I added a side entry to the back of the right side of the pan and installed the dipstick there. You can see the "T" handle to the back of the cylinder head. Works fine. Another significant improvement was the installation of a freon addition connection to the left end of the aluminum fender brace - makes it a lot easier to add freon - which, to my simple mind, means one won't need to add freon as often, or ever.
>
> Stephen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On Behalf Of Christopher Kimball
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2024 7:37 PM
> To: Paul A Rimov <rimovp at gmail.com>; Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Aviad pan
>
> I called them but they were no help and said they couldn't do anything for me.
>
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S9+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Paul A Rimov <rimovp at gmail.com>
> Date: 6/14/24 2:59 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>
> Cc: Christopher Kimball <ChrisVKimball at msn.com>, DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Aviad pan
>
> Long ago Lokar used to make custom dip sticks .
> https://www.lokar.com/trans-dipsticks.html<https://www.lokar.com/trans-dipsticks.html>
>
>
>
> On Jun 14, 2024, at 1:00 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
> Chris,
>
> Don’t remove the rivets. Just have the stick welded or brazed also.
>
> Belt and suspenders….
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jun 14, 2024, at 08:54, Christopher Kimball <ChrisVKimball at msn.com> wrote:
>
> The rivets are installed in such a way as to make the top if the
> dipstick slightly crooked, and I'm worried removing them and trying to braze the dipstick would weaken it at the point it needs to be strongest. Plus, I can't think of anywhere I could take it to be brazed that I would trust to do a good job. Most of the shops I've taken my car to lately have been a bit careless. Plus, it would be nice to have an extra one as a spare, just in case!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2024 8:48 AM
> To: Christopher Kimball <ChrisVKimball at msn.com>; Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se>; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Aviad pan
>
> Chris,
> What was wrong with your existing dipstick, other than being riveted?
> I'd just braze the two overlapping edges and call it good.
> Julian
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Christopher Kimball <ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2024 8:46 AM
> To: Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se>; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Aviad pan
>
> Thank you. I'm not planning on changing my tube, just the dipstick itself, however.
> I'm going to try finding the Ford van one.
> Sincerely,
> Chris
> ________________________________
> From: Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se>
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2024 3:19 AM
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Aviad pan This is my dipstick and tube.
> I thought I had photos of the two sticks when I cut them up, but it was more than 20 years ago I made this, so the photos are possibly lost somewhere.
> I made this when I was installing the EFI as I wanted to seal off the tube to eliminate vacuum leaks that would mess air mass up. The Audi sticks has an O-ring that fits the tube perfectly.
> I think the sticks were for a 1997:isch Audi A6 2.8E (V6) and they were about $10 each at the audi dealer.
> Cheers,
> Thomas
> Den 2024-06-13 kl. 22:51, skrev Christopher Kimball:
> FYI, I called Lokar and they don't sell dipsticks by themselves, only
> with the tube, which I don't want to replace. I asked if I bought the
> set and then just wanted to use the dipstick if it would work in the
> kind of tube the Cleveland uses, the kind I have, and the answer was
> no.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris
>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Thomas Toernblom <tipo874 at gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2024 9:54 PM
> To: B Hower <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>; Mike Drew
> <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; DeTomaso Mail List
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Aviad pan
>
> I cut and welded two Audi V6 dipsticks together to make it the correct
> length.
> Check out Lokar dipsticks otherwise.
> Thomas
> 13 juni 2024 kl. 03:38 skrev B Hower via DeTomaso
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>:
>
> Mike,
> From which part of cup, top or bottom?
> Bud
>
> On Wednesday, June 12, 2024 at 07:53:38 PM CDT, Mike Drew via
> DeTomaso
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> Chris,
> The stock dipstick was nothing more than a standard Mustang
> dipstick
> chopped in half, with a spring brazed in between the two halves.
> You can buy a stock Mustang dipstick anywhere, and have the same
> thing
> done. They can take the spring from your old dipstick and transfer
> it
> over.
> Or, they can just fix your existing one.
> It needs to be exactly 38 inches from the cup to the tip.
> Mike
> Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 12, 2024, at 17:47, Christopher Kimball <[1]ChrisVKimball at msn.com> wrote:
>
> i>>? My dipstick broke at the top and is now riveted
> together, and
> the full
> level is a mark scored on the stick at the right place. I'm worried the rivets will someday give out; is there a place where one can order a custom-made dipstick manufactured to a specified length?
> That
> would
> alleviate my rivet concerns and also allow the correct marks to be on the dipstick.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris
>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
> on
> behalf of
> Julian Kift <[3]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2024 2:01 PM
> To: Mike Drew <[4]mikeldrew at aol.com>; Asa Jay Laughton <[5]asajay at asajay.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso Mail List <[6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Aviad pan
>
> Everyone seems to get fixated on 9 quarts or 7 quarts and squeezing oil into the aftermarket pans, but Ken was on the right track, at the end of the day it's about oil level in relation to the rotating assembly.
> If your original dipstick was providing a good oil level in relation to the rotating assembly and windage then the mark is equally valid for the new pan, and it holds whatever it takes to fill to that mark.
> Julian
> ________________________________
> From: DeTomaso <[7]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
> on
> behalf of
> Asa Jay Laughton via DeTomaso
> <[8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2024 1:53 PM
> To: Mike Drew <[9]mikeldrew at aol.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso Mail List <[10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Aviad pan Hi Mike, I agree on both methods. They are of course a pain in the arse in either case. No pun intended.
> Larry Stock's post indicated it should hold 9 but maybe he was referring to the Cleveland pan?
> I have fixed this on a stock pan in another car with an aftermarket dipstick. In that case the owner was overfilling just to get oil to show on the stick. Then he was blowing oil all over when driving.
> We
> drained and refilled with the correct number of quarts for a stock pan, then shortened the dipstick tube to a correct length.
> In this case I have seven quarts in this pan, and the aftermarket dipstick shows way over the full line with the car on level concrete.
> The stick is actually steel wire and not something I can easily cut and braze back together.
> I would think a larger capacity pan should take more than five quarts, and seven seemed reasonable from checking Aviad's site for that pan.
> I'm mostly trying to verify at this point that seven is a correct amount with this pan before I'm forced into one of the other methods.
> Thank you,
> Asa Jay
> Sent via radio waves
> On Jun 11, 2024, at 13:10, Mike Drew <[11]mikeldrew at aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> AJ,
>
> I find it curious that they claim the Cleveland pan is 9 quarts while the nominally identical Windsor unit is only 7 quarts?
>
> Life is made more difficult with an aftermarket dipstick setup.
>
> The quality fix is to remove the pan, insert the dipstick and
> either
> verify that it is marked properly, or remark it as needed.
>
> Then put that much oil in, however much it is, and remember that number.
>
> If pulling the pan is too much effort, you can always just buy a standard 351W dipstick and tube and install that temporarily, fill the motor to the appropriate amount, then pull it and refit the custom Pantera setup and compare the results, and remark as needed.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jun 11, 2024, at 12:53, Asa Jay Laughton via DeTomaso <[12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
> All,
>
> On this stroked Windsor is the following pan:
>
> [1]155-55367 SBFW PANTERA PAN W/S
>
> [2]Wet Sump Road Race Oil Pans (SBF 289/302 & 351W) at Replacement Parts | Page 3 of 3 [3]aviaid.com [4][wFNi7tReOKIaAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==]
>
> Aviad claims it to be a 7-quart pan. I know based on the shape that it should hold more than five. However, does anyone here have experience with this pan? There is an aftermarket dipstick installed and I don't know if it's been calibrated properly.
>
> If you have this pan on a Windsor, how many quarts to Full on a stock dipstick?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Asa Jay
>
> Sent via radio waves
>
> References
>
> Visible links
> 1. tel:155-55367
> 2.
>
>
>
> [1]https://avi/
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>
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> References
>
> 1.
>
>
> [15]https://av/
> %2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C3abbad5710bd4637a91208dc8c891d25%7C84df9e7fe9f640
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> ed=0
>
> iaid.com%2Fshopsite_sc%2Fstore%2Fhtml%2Fws_oilpns_sbf-ss3.html&data=05%
>
> 7C02%7C%7C5ebb30ae8a9046ca56d408dc8b64f2c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaa
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> aaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638538512895327188%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4
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> ata=gI6fPJpYsQQN%2FmkKZXtrxVBN%2Fx%2B6hPuefwtZrr0X7Gs%3D&reserved=0
> 2.
>
>
> [16]https://av/
> %2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C3abbad5710bd4637a91208dc8c891d25%7C84df9e7fe9f640
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> 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0
> %7C%7C%7C&sdata=DdG7f2PGyDw9jvxDSgJUWsrxSRcsMw6Td4Gv4N2Ozl8%3D&reserved
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>
> iaid.com%2Fshopsite_sc%2Fstore%2Fhtml%2Fws_oilpns_sbf-ss3.html&data=05%
>
> 7C02%7C%7C5ebb30ae8a9046ca56d408dc8b64f2c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaa
>
> aaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638538512895329901%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4
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> ata=U5TJ8679EK9Tbi9JKfcIRuUlNf5fWDXEny7HfPjcrss%3D&reserved=0
> 3.
>
>
> [17]https://av/
> %2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C3abbad5710bd4637a91208dc8c891d25%7C84df9e7fe9f640
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> %7C%7C%7C&sdata=1W5BqkvEWXrd1oouKLMi2YHQzcSaJcXixpJ6kqZKLy8%3D&reserved
> =0
>
> iaid.com%2Fshopsite_sc%2Fstore%2Fhtml%2Fws_oilpns_sbf-ss3.html&data=05%
>
> 7C02%7C%7C5ebb30ae8a9046ca56d408dc8b64f2c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaa
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> aaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638538512895332543%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4
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> ata=p6pEpyE9eujvA5FGCIvZ3RGqBsgDAAbqL8sJm%2BpGJzE%3D&reserved=0
> 4.
>
>
> [18]https://av/
> %2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C3abbad5710bd4637a91208dc8c891d25%7C84df9e7fe9f640
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> iaid.com%2Fshopsite_sc%2Fstore%2Fhtml%2Fws_oilpns_sbf-ss3.html&data=05%
>
> 7C02%7C%7C5ebb30ae8a9046ca56d408dc8b64f2c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaa
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> ata=odqVXcaEyoY3SoypbfJu2xNSn3QYJUzoYu9aBbPDLy8%3D&reserved=0
> 5.
>
> [19]http://ser/
> %2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C3abbad5710bd4637a91208dc8c891d25%7C84df9e7fe9f640
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> ver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=05%7C02%7C%7C
>
> 5ebb30ae8a9046ca56d408dc8b64f2c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
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> H9kxvanhh%2Bgs010T7fNaBBIXVUYLGKx2T3Q3o%3D&reserved=0
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [20]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>
>
> [21]http://ser/
> %2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C3abbad5710bd4637a91208dc8c891d25%7C84df9e7fe9f640
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> ver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=05%7C02%7C%7C
>
> 5ebb30ae8a9046ca56d408dc8b64f2c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
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> oLscG%2FH%2FxUP1BE0OpU%2F074r3LRXiakh6YtAeY%3D&reserved=0
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.)
> use the links above.
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> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
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> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>
>
> [23]http://ser/
> %2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C3abbad5710bd4637a91208dc8c891d25%7C84df9e7fe9f640
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>
> ver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=05%7C02%7C%7C
>
> 5ebb30ae8a9046ca56d408dc8b64f2c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
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> H4PCPe2adpLrXIGYnHWU4apBXR8XnweP9fQYk%3D&reserved=0
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. [1]mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
> 2. [2]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 3. [3]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 4. [4]mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
> 5. [5]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 6. [6]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 7. [7]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 8. [8]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 9. [9]mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
> 10. [10]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 11. [11]mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
> 12. [12]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 13. [13]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 14.
>
> [14]https://na/
> %2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C3abbad5710bd4637a91208dc8c891d25%7C84df9e7fe9f640
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> reserved=0
> 15.
>
> [15]https://av/
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> ed=0
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> iaid.com%2Fshopsite_sc%2Fstore%2Fhtml%2Fws_oilpns_sbf-ss3.html&data=05%
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> 16.
>
> [16]https://av/
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>
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> [18]https://av/
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>
> [19]http://ser/
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> ver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=05%7C02%7C%7C
>
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> 20. [20]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 21.
>
> [21]http://ser/
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> ver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=05%7C02%7C%7C
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> 22. [22]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 23.
>
> [23]http://ser/
> %2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C3abbad5710bd4637a91208dc8c891d25%7C84df9e7fe9f640
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> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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> References
>
> 1. [1]mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
> 2. [2]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 3. [3]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 4. [4]mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
> 5. [5]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 6. [6]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 7. [7]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 8. [8]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 9. [9]mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
> 10. [10]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 11. [11]mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
> 12. [12]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 13. [13]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 14.
> [14]https://na/
> 01.safel%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C3abbad5710bd4637a91208dc8c891d25%7C84df9e
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> 15.
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> 20. [20]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 21.
> [21]http://ser/
> ver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=05%7C02%7C%7C
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> nks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2F
> mailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=05%7C02%7C%7C3abbad5710bd4637a91208d
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> 0R63HB5v2RjW7Hj4UM%3D&reserved=0>
> 22. [22]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 23.
> [23]http://ser/
> ver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=05%7C02%7C%7C
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> 24.
> [24]http://ser/
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> links.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%
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>
>
> !DSPAM:666b5bf824182629226542!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>
> [25]http://ser/
> ver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=05%7C02%7C%7C
> 3abbad5710bd4637a91208dc8c891d25%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
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> nks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2F
> mailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=05%7C02%7C%7C3abbad5710bd4637a91208d
> c8c891d25%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6385397677710289
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> ZB0OLzNS1AZLQfwjn4%3D&reserved=0>
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> !DSPAM:666b5bf824182629226542!
> --
> Real life: Thomas Toernblom Email: thomas at hax.se
> Snail mail: Banvallsvaegen 14 Mobile: +46 76 209 8320
> S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
> 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 3. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 4. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
> 5. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 7. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 8. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 9. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
> 10. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 11. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
> 12. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 14. https://na01.safel/
> 15. https://aviaid.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/ws_oilpns_sbf-ss3.html
> 16. https://aviaid.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/ws_oilpns_sbf-ss3.html
> 17. https://aviaid.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/ws_oilpns_sbf-ss3.html
> 18. https://aviaid.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/ws_oilpns_sbf-ss3.html
> 19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
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