[DeTomaso] Dog bone air cleaner and valve cover venting
Julian Kift
julian_kift at hotmail.com
Tue Jun 11 17:24:38 EDT 2024
Mike,
I have seen at least 3 different designs, B&M, Holley (which I think is the same as Weiand) and a third unidentified brand which had a greater turn down on the two legs.
Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2024 10:46 AM
To: jderyke at aol.com <jderyke at aol.com>
Cc: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dog bone air cleaner and valve cover venting
Jack,
Can you elaborate further? I always believed there was a single design that was marketed at different times under different brand names, but they were identical. Am I wrong on that?
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 11, 2024, at 10:00, jderyke--- via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
> There are three (3.0) known makers of 'dogbone' air cleaners and
> they're all somewhat different. Also, many have been modified with a
> 3/4" or 1" spacer that lets more air into the carb. Which got tested?
>
> On Tuesday, June 11, 2024 at 09:33:50 AM PDT, Will Kooiman
> <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
> We tested dog bone air cleaners at our Dyno Day in 2005.
> Results were presented in Myth Busters format.
> From the newsletter:
> Myth#2 a The Dogbone Air cleaner (B&M, Airtech, etc.) is constrictive
> on carbs with a choke horn because the air cleaner sits low over the
> carb.
> This test was performed at the request of Gray Gregory whose 377
> stroker topped with a dogbone air cleaner made an impressive 347 HP at
> 6400 rpm. His carb has a choke horn, no spacer between the air cleaner
> and the carb, and a single filter on each side.
> The result a a one horsepower (loss) at 6400 with the dogbone
> versus no aircleaner at all. Thatas right a one horsepower on a 377
> stroker.
> Myth busted. At least in Texas, the Dogbone air cleaner does not
> restrict, even on a 377 stroker.
> And, if there's no restriction, there would be insignificant vacuum, so
> it probably isn't sucking oil. More likely, excessive blowby and as
> Larry suggested, insufficient baffles.
> Plus, there really should be a PCV on one valve cover.
> Plus plus, I've been running breathers that add an inch or two above
> the valve cover. I don't recall what they originally came on - Ford,
> but I'm not certain which year/model. They screw into the standard
> 351C valve cover, and then the breather pushes on the "tube - with
> baffles".
> i>>?On 6/11/24, 12:08 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Larry Stock"
> <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> <mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
> [2]larrys at panteraparts.com <mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com>> wrote:
> What do the baffles in the valve covers look like? Did they bother to
> correctly install the baffles? It doesn't sound like it, but I would
> expect the breather lines to be set up to drain back into the valve
> covers.
> Larry
> i>>?On 6/11/24, 8:28 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Asa Jay Laughton via
> DeTomaso" <[3]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> <mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
> <mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> <mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of
> [4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>> wrote:
> Photo of the setup:
> The two huge lines coming off the back of the air cleaner go to the
> breather on each valve cover.
> The large vacuum line at the base of the carb goes directly to the
> brake booster.
> Asa Jay
> Sent via radio waves
>>> On Jun 11, 2024, at 08:23, Asa Jay Laughton <[5]asajay at asajay.com
>> <mailto:asajay at asajay.com> <mailto:asajay at asajay.com
>> <mailto:asajay at asajay.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> i>>?Hi all,
>> I have a nice Pantera in my shop with something unusual. It has a
> Windsor bored and stroked to 427 and on top it has a dog bone air
> cleaner. My first thought is that the air cleaner is too small for the
> engine but I know others on this list have had great success with them
> so Iam trying not to worry about it.
>>
>> My bigger concern is this. Each valve cover is plumbed directly to
> the dog bone through a breather cap. When I removed the air cleaner it
> had a lot of oil in it. When I disconnected the valve cover lines from
> the dog bone they had a lot of oil in them. Quite a bit actually.
>>
>> Now I figure there are two ways that can contribute to this. First,
> too much blow by in the block and itas pushing oil up the breathers to
> the air cleaner. Or the air cleaner is generating enough vacuum that
> itas pulling a good deal of oil from the breathers.
>>
>> In a stock setup Iam used to one valve cover being vented to an air
> cleaner and the other running through a PCV. Those builds without a PCV
> Iave seen and used a breather to atmosphere. Iave never seen both valve
> covers attached to the air cleaner like this.
>>
>> Iam soliciting opinions on this setup, good, bad, thoughts, ideas.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Asa Jay
>> Pantera Research Institute - Pacific Northwest Chapter
>>
>> Sent via radio waves
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-------------- next part --------------
Mike,
I have seen at least 3 different designs, B&M, Holley (which I think is
the same as Weiand) and a third unidentified brand which had a greater
turn down on the two legs.
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2024 10:46 AM
To: jderyke at aol.com <jderyke at aol.com>
Cc: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dog bone air cleaner and valve cover venting
Jack,
Can you elaborate further? I always believed there was a single design
that was marketed at different times under different brand names, but
they were identical. Am I wrong on that?
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 11, 2024, at 10:00, jderyke--- via DeTomaso
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
> There are three (3.0) known makers of 'dogbone' air cleaners and
> they're all somewhat different. Also, many have been modified with
a
> 3/4" or 1" spacer that lets more air into the carb. Which got
tested?
>
> On Tuesday, June 11, 2024 at 09:33:50 AM PDT, Will Kooiman
> <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
> We tested dog bone air cleaners at our Dyno Day in 2005.
> Results were presented in Myth Busters format.
> From the newsletter:
> Myth#2 a The Dogbone Air cleaner (B&M, Airtech, etc.) is
constrictive
> on carbs with a choke horn because the air cleaner sits low over
the
> carb.
> This test was performed at the request of Gray Gregory whose
377
> stroker topped with a dogbone air cleaner made an impressive 347 HP
at
> 6400 rpm. His carb has a choke horn, no spacer between the air
cleaner
> and the carb, and a single filter on each side.
> The result a a one horsepower (loss) at 6400 with the dogbone
> versus no aircleaner at all. Thatas right a one horsepower on a
377
> stroker.
> Myth busted. At least in Texas, the Dogbone air cleaner does
not
> restrict, even on a 377 stroker.
> And, if there's no restriction, there would be insignificant
vacuum, so
> it probably isn't sucking oil. More likely, excessive blowby and
as
> Larry suggested, insufficient baffles.
> Plus, there really should be a PCV on one valve cover.
> Plus plus, I've been running breathers that add an inch or two
above
> the valve cover. I don't recall what they originally came on -
Ford,
> but I'm not certain which year/model. They screw into the standard
> 351C valve cover, and then the breather pushes on the "tube - with
> baffles".
> i>>?On 6/11/24, 12:08 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Larry Stock"
> <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> <[1]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
> [2]larrys at panteraparts.com <[2]mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com>>
wrote:
> What do the baffles in the valve covers look like? Did they bother
to
> correctly install the baffles? It doesn't sound like it, but I
would
> expect the breather lines to be set up to drain back into the valve
> covers.
> Larry
> i>>?On 6/11/24, 8:28 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Asa Jay Laughton
via
> DeTomaso" <[3]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> <[3]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
> <mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> <[4]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of
> [4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <[5]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <[6]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>> wrote:
> Photo of the setup:
> The two huge lines coming off the back of the air cleaner go to the
> breather on each valve cover.
> The large vacuum line at the base of the carb goes directly to the
> brake booster.
> Asa Jay
> Sent via radio waves
>>> On Jun 11, 2024, at 08:23, Asa Jay Laughton <[5]asajay at asajay.com
>> <[7]mailto:asajay at asajay.com> <mailto:asajay at asajay.com
>> <[8]mailto:asajay at asajay.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> i>>?Hi all,
>> I have a nice Pantera in my shop with something unusual. It has a
> Windsor bored and stroked to 427 and on top it has a dog bone air
> cleaner. My first thought is that the air cleaner is too small for
the
> engine but I know others on this list have had great success with
them
> so Iam trying not to worry about it.
>>
>> My bigger concern is this. Each valve cover is plumbed directly to
> the dog bone through a breather cap. When I removed the air cleaner
it
> had a lot of oil in it. When I disconnected the valve cover lines
from
> the dog bone they had a lot of oil in them. Quite a bit actually.
>>
>> Now I figure there are two ways that can contribute to this. First,
> too much blow by in the block and itas pushing oil up the breathers
to
> the air cleaner. Or the air cleaner is generating enough vacuum
that
> itas pulling a good deal of oil from the breathers.
>>
>> In a stock setup Iam used to one valve cover being vented to an air
> cleaner and the other running through a PCV. Those builds without a
PCV
> Iave seen and used a breather to atmosphere. Iave never seen both
valve
> covers attached to the air cleaner like this.
>>
>> Iam soliciting opinions on this setup, good, bad, thoughts, ideas.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Asa Jay
>> Pantera Research Institute - Pacific Northwest Chapter
>>
>> Sent via radio waves
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