[DeTomaso] Stainless steel hardware and aluminum complications
George B
gkb1968 at hotmail.com
Sun Jul 28 22:07:25 EDT 2024
SS hardware is prone to galling in most any metal even when mated with the same alloy SS hardware. Machinerys Handbook states you should always use a thread lubricant on SS threads. That lube can be antiseize, thread locker, thread sealant, grease...
George
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Jeff Kimball via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2024 9:37:42 PM
To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>; Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Stainless steel hardware and aluminum complications
For your amusement:
https://www.anzor.com.au/blog/stainless-screws-in-aluminium
And for the record, the Stainless trim around the doors on my Pantera was held in place by aluminum pop-rivets. They didn't last very long.
Jeff/2467
> On 07/27/2024 1:16 PM PDT Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Ken,
>
> ARP's engineering and technical staff know much more than I do, but I would never use stainless steel bolts in an aluminum crank pulley. :-)
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2024 11:47 AM
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; Charles Engles
> Cc: 'B Hower'; Asa Jay Laughton
> Subject: Re: Stainless steel hardware and aluminum complications
>
> ARP says to use an anti-seize on the stainless fasteners, do you think that resolves the issues?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, July 27, 2024 at 06:26:41 AM PDT, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Ken,
>
> Your comment about using stainless steel studs and hardware on the ZF, reminded me of a lesson I learned from another Pantera owner and a very experienced Ford Motorsports and Rousch Industries engineer. After my friend’s Pantera began making troubling noises, it was determined that the culprit was the aluminum crank pulley secured with stainless steel bolts. Ultimately, it required major mechanical efforts to remove the cold-welded stainless steel-aluminum from the balancer. The pro told me to never use stainless steel in aluminum because of the tendency to galling and worst case scenario---cold welding. I had *no* idea.
>
> Just yesterday I was working on a Windsor engine with an aluminum intake manifold. My brother told me that on its previous iteration, the front nose (?) piece on the intake manifold coolant snout was very problematic to get watertight. Short story: I found that the two *stainless steel* bolts did not completely thread down. Each was blocked at a different depth. A thread chaser was a big improvement, but I re-tapped both and finally got both bolts to seat properly. Then, it dawned on me that the snout-intake had been assembled, at least, two or three times before I got it. The problem was the stainless steel bolts galling the bolts holes. I also replaced the SS bolts with common steel bolts.
>
> In addition to the SS-aluminum galling propensity, there is also a potential for electrolytic reaction of SS-alum to produce “tea staining” of the *stainless*steel fasteners.
>
> Information links:
>
> Galling: https://www.pencomsf.com/articles-updates/galling-of-stainless-steel-fasteners/
>
> Staining: https://www.marshfasteners.com/can-stainless-steel-and-aluminum-be-used-together/#:~:text=When%20using%20stainless%20steel%20fasteners,also%20called%20'tea%20staining'.
>
>
> Metallurgically yours, Chuck Engles
>
>
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>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
SS hardware is prone to galling in most any metal even when mated with
the same alloy SS hardware. Machinerys Handbook states you should
always use a thread lubricant on SS threads. That lube can be
antiseize, thread locker, thread sealant, grease...
George
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Get [1]Outlook for Android
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
Jeff Kimball via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2024 9:37:42 PM
To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>; Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>;
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Stainless steel hardware and aluminum
complications
For your amusement:
[2]https://www.anzor.com.au/blog/stainless-screws-in-aluminium
And for the record, the Stainless trim around the doors on my Pantera
was held in place by aluminum pop-rivets. They didn't last very long.
Jeff/2467
> On 07/27/2024 1:16 PM PDT Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Ken,
>
> ARP's engineering and technical staff know much more
than I do, but I would never use stainless steel bolts in an aluminum
crank pulley. :-)
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Green [[3]mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2024 11:47 AM
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; Charles Engles
> Cc: 'B Hower'; Asa Jay Laughton
> Subject: Re: Stainless steel hardware and aluminum complications
>
> ARP says to use an anti-seize on the stainless fasteners, do you
think that resolves the issues?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, July 27, 2024 at 06:26:41 AM PDT, Charles Engles
<cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Ken,
>
> Your comment about using stainless steel studs and
hardware on the ZF, reminded me of a lesson I learned from another
Pantera owner and a very experienced Ford Motorsports and Rousch
Industries engineer. After my friend's Pantera began making troubling
noises, it was determined that the culprit was the aluminum crank
pulley secured with stainless steel bolts. Ultimately, it required
major mechanical efforts to remove the cold-welded stainless
steel-aluminum from the balancer. The pro told me to never use
stainless steel in aluminum because of the tendency to galling and
worst case scenario---cold welding. I had *no* idea.
>
> Just yesterday I was working on a Windsor engine with an
aluminum intake manifold. My brother told me that on its previous
iteration, the front nose (?) piece on the intake manifold coolant
snout was very problematic to get watertight. Short story: I found
that the two *stainless steel* bolts did not completely thread down.
Each was blocked at a different depth. A thread chaser was a big
improvement, but I re-tapped both and finally got both bolts to seat
properly. Then, it dawned on me that the snout-intake had been
assembled, at least, two or three times before I got it. The problem
was the stainless steel bolts galling the bolts holes. I also replaced
the SS bolts with common steel bolts.
>
> In addition to the SS-aluminum galling propensity, there is
also a potential for electrolytic reaction of SS-alum to produce "tea
staining" of the *stainless*steel fasteners.
>
> Information links:
>
> Galling:
[4]https://www.pencomsf.com/articles-updates/galling-of-stainless-steel
-fasteners/
>
> Staining:
[5]https://www.marshfasteners.com/can-stainless-steel-and-aluminum-be-u
sed-together/#:~:text=When%20using%20stainless%20steel%20fasteners,also
%20called%20'tea%20staining'.
>
>
> Metallurgically yours, Chuck Engles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
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References
1. https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg
2. https://www.anzor.com.au/blog/stainless-screws-in-aluminium
3. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
4. https://www.pencomsf.com/articles-updates/galling-of-stainless-steel-fasteners/
5. https://www.marshfasteners.com/can-stainless-steel-and-aluminum-be-used-together/#:~:text=When%20using%20stainless%20steel%20fasteners,also%20called%20'tea%20staining'
6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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