[DeTomaso] Overheating problem
Richard Greenblum
Richard at richardgreenblum.com
Tue Jul 2 13:59:52 EDT 2024
I do not, and never considered drilling into my CHI 4V heads. My 408C runs between 172 and 185, and only gets to 185 when idling for a while. That’s in 95 to three digit weather. I think the biggest issues for our cars is air in the system. My previous engine (the original to the car) never overheated either.
I think John Taphorn plumbed at least one of his engines with tubing from the driver side head to the passenger, then on to the tank.
Richard
Austin, TX
From: B Hower <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2024 11:58 AM
To: jderyke at aol.com; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; Richard Greenblum <richard at richardgreenblum.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Overheating problem
To all:
Do any of you have a petcock at the rear of each head?
Curious,
Bud
On Tuesday, July 2, 2024 at 10:15:09 AM CDT, Richard Greenblum <richard at richardgreenblum.com <mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com> > wrote:
I must have gotten lucky (for once). After just two heat cycles using the funnel, I've not had to add any coolant.
Richard
Austin, TX
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> > On Behalf Of jderyke--- via DeTomaso
Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2024 9:38 AM
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> ; Richard Greenblum <richard at richardgreenblum.com <mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com> >
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Overheating problem
I've been using the metcod Rickard described (called a Lisle device) since the '90s. But it still takes days to fully eliminate every last bit of air. I once put 400 miles of highway driving and two days to bleed the last out. Filling the radiator is NOT simple! YMMV-
On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 03:48:27 PM PDT, Richard Greenblum <richard at richardgreenblum.com <mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com> > wrote:
All,
I've had pretty good luck in the past with the routine Mike described. But, I've found the absolute best way to get the air out. You can purchase the devise for about $25 over the internet. It's a kit that comes with various caps, one of which will fit the Pantera tank provided it's been converted to US specs, not the Italian neck. You first fill the system with as much coolant as you can with the engine cold. Then, you attach a hopper from the kit to the cap and you fill the hopper with coolant. Let the engine heat up and you'll see the air blowing up through the hopper and coolant displacing the air. You must keep extra coolant next to you as you do this to ensure the hopper always has coolant in it or you'll reintroduce air to the system. Shut down the engine when you see no more activity in the hopper. Let it cool, then do it again. Your system should be full of coolant and have no air left inside.
This worked better than the vacuum system the guy in the Hagerty video used.
Richard
Austin, TX
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> > On Behalf Of Larry Stock
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 5:06 PM
To: Pantera Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com <mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com> >; George Sekula <georgesekula at outlook.com <mailto:georgesekula at outlook.com> >
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Overheating problem
The operational overflow tank coolant level can vary. The stock overflow tanks are shorter than the new aftermarket shiny SS tanks we sell. To prevent that awkward and embarrassing discharge of coolant from an over filled overflow tank, which Usually happens waiting in a line going into a car show, I use a long 18-24" long flexible tie wrap to flex around the neck and into the tank to measure the coolant depth in the overflow tank. With a cold stock coolant tank you want about 3" and with a cold aftermarket tank about 5" of coolant depth is my recommendation. This is after all the sucking and bleeding of the cooling system has been completed as Mike has described below.
Larry Stock
On 7/1/24, 2:05 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso" <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> <mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>> wrote:
George,
The symptoms you describe are consistent with a lot of trapped air in the system. Filling and bleeding the system is normally an iterative process that can take several days (for complete cooldown between bleeds).
With the radiator bleeder open, and the rear of the car elevated, the pressure tank should be filled while the engine is running. When the thermostat opens it will gulp water from the tank, practically emptying it, at which point you should top it off.
This will make a big fat mess.
Bleeding the air from the bleeder and topping off the tank after the thermostat has opened will enable you to get it mostly full. Then install a new cap on the pressure tank and ensure the overflow is about half full.
When the car cools off it may suck water from the overflow so the pressure tank remains full but the overflow level is reduced. If your cap is leaking it will just suck air, so the pressure tank level will be down and the overflow will remain the same.
After a few cycles it should resolve itself.
As a technique I sometimes overfill the overflow bottle, knowing that it will dump excess coolant overboard. Route a long hose from the overflow to the rear of the car so it doesn’t get onto the tire.
It will dump upon engine shutdown. This can be embarrassing but eventually it will reach its happy spot and stop dumping.
Good luck and please keep us posted!
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 1, 2024, at 13:35, George Sekula <georgesekula at outlook.com <mailto:georgesekula at outlook.com> <mailto:georgesekula at outlook.com>> wrote:
>
> I am struggling with overheating after I changed the water pump and
> thermostat. New water pump is an Edelbrock 8844 with a new overdrive
> pully. The thermostat is a Robertshaw 333 from Flowkooler via Summit
> Racing. I tested the operating temperature on the thermostat several
> times and it opens at exactly at180F. The dimensions match their
> website. The original bypass restrictor is still installed, with a
> 3/4" hole; the thermostat plunger is 11/16". It acts like there is
> water in the engine that does not get circulated until you shut the
> engine off. Hot water violently flows into the overflow tank and the
> water temperature instantly raises 30F. When you start the engine
> everything acts normal. You can feel the water start to flow in the
> tube at 180F, radiator warms up, fans turn on and the temperature
> holds perfect for a while. Then the temperature slowly climbs. Driving
> the car, the temperature will slowly climb higher, maybe 210F. The two
> radiator fan temperature switches work as they should, but they are
> not detecting this hot water. When I filled the system, the bleeder on
> top of the radiator was open with 3 ft of clear tubing to get it
> higher than the block and tanks. The temperature sender in the top of
> the block was removed until coolant flowed out (wish I had added tubing).
> Tried raising the back, then tried raising the front while topping off
> the tank. The leaking pump that I replaced was a Wieland and it was
> not drilled for the bypass circuit, the thermostat was a Gates 180
> that I installed 30 years ago. Radiator is a 3-pass aluminum with two
> large pusher fans. What is the best method for filling the system to
> prevent trapped air? Are there other things that I need to check?
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
I do not, and never considered drilling into my CHI 4V heads. My 408C
runs between 172 and 185, and only gets to 185 when idling for a
while. That's in 95 to three digit weather. I think the biggest
issues for our cars is air in the system. My previous engine (the
original to the car) never overheated either.
I think John Taphorn plumbed at least one of his engines with tubing
from the driver side head to the passenger, then on to the tank.
Richard
Austin, TX
From: B Hower <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2024 11:58 AM
To: jderyke at aol.com; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; Richard
Greenblum <richard at richardgreenblum.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Overheating problem
To all:
Do any of you have a petcock at the rear of each head?
Curious,
Bud
On Tuesday, July 2, 2024 at 10:15:09 AM CDT, Richard Greenblum
<[1]richard at richardgreenblum.com> wrote:
I must have gotten lucky (for once). After just two heat cycles using
the funnel, I've not had to add any coolant.
Richard
Austin, TX
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On Behalf
Of jderyke--- via DeTomaso
Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2024 9:38 AM
To: [3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; Richard Greenblum
<[4]richard at richardgreenblum.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Overheating problem
I've been using the metcod Rickard described (called a Lisle device)
since the '90s. But it still takes days to fully eliminate every last
bit of air. I once put 400 miles of highway driving and two days to
bleed the last out. Filling the radiator is NOT simple! YMMV-
On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 03:48:27 PM PDT, Richard Greenblum
<[5]richard at richardgreenblum.com> wrote:
All,
I've had pretty good luck in the past with the routine Mike described.
But, I've found the absolute best way to get the air out. You can
purchase the devise for about $25 over the internet. It's a kit that
comes with various caps, one of which will fit the Pantera tank
provided it's been converted to US specs, not the Italian neck. You
first fill the system with as much coolant as you can with the engine
cold. Then, you attach a hopper from the kit to the cap and you fill
the hopper with coolant. Let the engine heat up and you'll see the air
blowing up through the hopper and coolant displacing the air. You must
keep extra coolant next to you as you do this to ensure the hopper
always has coolant in it or you'll reintroduce air to the system. Shut
down the engine when you see no more activity in the hopper. Let it
cool, then do it again. Your system should be full of coolant and have
no air left inside.
This worked better than the vacuum system the guy in the Hagerty video
used.
Richard
Austin, TX
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso <[6]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On Behalf
Of Larry Stock
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 5:06 PM
To: Pantera Mike Drew <[7]mikeldrew at aol.com>; George Sekula
<[8]georgesekula at outlook.com>
Cc: [9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Overheating problem
The operational overflow tank coolant level can vary. The stock
overflow tanks are shorter than the new aftermarket shiny SS tanks we
sell. To prevent that awkward and embarrassing discharge of coolant
from an over filled overflow tank, which Usually happens waiting in a
line going into a car show, I use a long 18-24" long flexible tie wrap
to flex around the neck and into the tank to measure the coolant depth
in the overflow tank. With a cold stock coolant tank you want about 3"
and with a cold aftermarket tank about 5" of coolant depth is my
recommendation. This is after all the sucking and bleeding of the
cooling system has been completed as Mike has described below.
Larry Stock
On 7/1/24, 2:05 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso"
<[10]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<[12]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>> wrote:
George,
The symptoms you describe are consistent with a lot of trapped air in
the system. Filling and bleeding the system is normally an iterative
process that can take several days (for complete cooldown between
bleeds).
With the radiator bleeder open, and the rear of the car elevated, the
pressure tank should be filled while the engine is running. When the
thermostat opens it will gulp water from the tank, practically emptying
it, at which point you should top it off.
This will make a big fat mess.
Bleeding the air from the bleeder and topping off the tank after the
thermostat has opened will enable you to get it mostly full. Then
install a new cap on the pressure tank and ensure the overflow is about
half full.
When the car cools off it may suck water from the overflow so the
pressure tank remains full but the overflow level is reduced. If your
cap is leaking it will just suck air, so the pressure tank level will
be down and the overflow will remain the same.
After a few cycles it should resolve itself.
As a technique I sometimes overfill the overflow bottle, knowing that
it will dump excess coolant overboard. Route a long hose from the
overflow to the rear of the car so it doesn't get onto the tire.
It will dump upon engine shutdown. This can be embarrassing but
eventually it will reach its happy spot and stop dumping.
Good luck and please keep us posted!
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 1, 2024, at 13:35, George Sekula <[13]georgesekula at outlook.com
<mailto:georgesekula at outlook.com>> wrote:
>
> I am struggling with overheating after I changed the water pump and
> thermostat. New water pump is an Edelbrock 8844 with a new overdrive
> pully. The thermostat is a Robertshaw 333 from Flowkooler via Summit
> Racing. I tested the operating temperature on the thermostat several
> times and it opens at exactly at180F. The dimensions match their
> website. The original bypass restrictor is still installed, with a
> 3/4" hole; the thermostat plunger is 11/16". It acts like there is
> water in the engine that does not get circulated until you shut the
> engine off. Hot water violently flows into the overflow tank and the
> water temperature instantly raises 30F. When you start the engine
> everything acts normal. You can feel the water start to flow in the
> tube at 180F, radiator warms up, fans turn on and the temperature
> holds perfect for a while. Then the temperature slowly climbs.
Driving
> the car, the temperature will slowly climb higher, maybe 210F. The
two
> radiator fan temperature switches work as they should, but they are
> not detecting this hot water. When I filled the system, the bleeder
on
> top of the radiator was open with 3 ft of clear tubing to get it
> higher than the block and tanks. The temperature sender in the top of
> the block was removed until coolant flowed out (wish I had added
tubing).
> Tried raising the back, then tried raising the front while topping
off
> the tank. The leaking pump that I replaced was a Wieland and it was
> not drilled for the bypass circuit, the thermostat was a Gates 180
> that I installed 30 years ago. Radiator is a 3-pass aluminum with two
> large pusher fans. What is the best method for filling the system to
> prevent trapped air? Are there other things that I need to check?
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
> [14]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <[15]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
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>
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use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
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References
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2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
4. mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com
5. mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com
6. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
7. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
8. mailto:georgesekula at outlook.com
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
13. mailto:georgesekula at outlook.com
14. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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