[DeTomaso] Pilot Bearing Pull - Success, with a Caveat
Jeff Kimball
jgkrenton at comcast.net
Fri Jul 28 20:44:49 EDT 2023
Mike:
As several people have inferred, what you have is a needle bearing assembly which includes the needles, a cage, a race and an adapter that allows the needle bearing assembly to replace the much larger Oilite bronze bushing.
The needle bearing can be removed from the adapter relatively easily, as you discovered. There is absolutely no reason to replace the adapter, they don't wear. So unless you want to return to an Oilite bronze bushing or the needle bearing assembly was destroyed to the point it damaged the adapter, there is no reason to mess with the adapter. For the most part, the adapter should be considered a permanent part of the crankshaft after installation.
Most typical maintenance occurring when the clutch is removed would be to just pop out the needle bearing and put in a new bearing in the original adapter. Not significantly more difficult, maybe even easier, than replacing the Oilite bronze bushing.
Now having said all that, and given you've indicated the adapter has been damaged during efforts to remove it, I'm pretty sure my "blind hole bearing/bushing removing tool" (Thanks Harbor Freight) can manage to extract the adapter (Famous last words ;-)) So if you don't have success give me a call and I'll bring the tool over sometime next week.
May the Force (Archimedes) be with you!
Jeff
> On 07/28/2023 3:33 PM PDT Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Dennis is a big proponent of needle bearings and I think I have relayed my experience when I first got the GT5 to the list previously.
>
> The ZF was with Dennis for rebuild at the time of purchase, I was able to add the tall 5th, which worked out great. I flew to Phoenix, installed the gearbox with Coz and drove the 12 hours back to Reno, two things struck me 1. the overstuffed seat had to go as my neck was cricked the who way! and 2. shifting wasn't great for a newly rebuilt ZF. It wasn't long prior to the Fun Rally in Vegas, so I met up with Dennis at Spring Mountain for the track day and he drove a few laps, came back and said when you get home pull the ZF and send it back, we'll take a look. I duly did so, and upon teardown he could find nothing materially wrong, but made a few tweaks and returned it. After reinstallation there was no difference, still hanging up in shifting, that's when Dennis asked what I had for pilot bearing and I stated the Oilite bronze bushing, he said I'm going to send you a needle pilot bearing for you to switch out.... that was 2007 and I've been driving on that bearing, clutch and ZF for 15 years now without further issue. I'm a convert and the little extra hassle I might encounter in removal at some point won't get me back to heathen ways....
>
> Julian
>
> ________________________________
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Mike & Elizabeth <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 3:07 PM
> To: jim.kosloskey at jim-kosloskey.com <jim.kosloskey at jim-kosloskey.com>; 'Pantera Owners Club of America' <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pilot Bearing Pull - Success, with a Caveat
>
> I have a new needle bearing sent to me by Quella when I ordered a
> replacement pressure plate, but this ordeal certainly has me reconsidering
> going to an oilite bronze bushing. Through all of the needle bearing v
> oilite threads, I don't recall anyone chiming in on the increased difficulty
> in pulling the needle bearing assembly.
>
> Per Larry Finsh's post, I could have a) left the current one alone as it
> didn't appear to be in need of replacement or b) replaced just the bearing
> core and left the retainer (?) alone and unblemished. To a), I've always
> considered replacement of the pilot one of those things you just do when you
> have everything else that far apart.
>
> Had the engine still been in the car, this would have been 10 times more
> difficult.
>
> Mike Thomas
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jim.kosloskey at jim-kosloskey.com <jim.kosloskey at jim-kosloskey.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 1:38 PM
> To: 'Mike & Elizabeth' <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Pilot Bearing Pull - Success, with a Caveat
>
> Mike,
>
> So, I may have missed it but will you be going with bearing or bushing in
> your new setup?
>
> Congratulations for persevering through the ordeal - now upward and onward.
>
> Jim Kosloskey
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On Behalf Of Mike
> & Elizabeth
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 2:33 PM
> To: 'Pantera Owners Club of America' <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Pilot Bearing Pull - Success, with a Caveat
>
> Well, I finally got the recalcitrant pilot bearing retainer to yield and
> come out. Huzzah!
>
>
>
> However, (see attached pics) I did manage to take a very little bit of
> material off of the crank beyond where the bearing sits during the grinding
> out of the retainer. Troubling and potentially very expensive question: is
> enough to cause a balance issue?
>
>
>
> Cautiously optimistic in Covington. Thanks again for all the suggestions
> and encouragement. I'm glad I didn't have to do this with it in the car.
>
>
>
> Mike Thomas
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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> Dennis is a big proponent of needle bearings and I think I have relayed
> my experience when I first got the GT5 to the list previously.
>
> The ZF was with Dennis for rebuild at the time of purchase, I was able
> to add the tall 5th, which worked out great. I flew to Phoenix,
> installed the gearbox with Coz and drove the 12 hours back to Reno, two
> things struck me 1. the overstuffed seat had to go as my neck was
> cricked the who way! and 2. shifting wasn't great for a newly rebuilt
> ZF. It wasn't long prior to the Fun Rally in Vegas, so I met up with
> Dennis at Spring Mountain for the track day and he drove a few laps,
> came back and said when you get home pull the ZF and send it back,
> we'll take a look. I duly did so, and upon teardown he could find
> nothing materially wrong, but made a few tweaks and returned it. After
> reinstallation there was no difference, still hanging up in shifting,
> that's when Dennis asked what I had for pilot bearing and I stated the
> Oilite bronze bushing, he said I'm going to send you a needle pilot
> bearing for you to switch out.... that was 2007 and I've been driving
> on that bearing, clutch and ZF for 15 years now without further issue.
> I'm a convert and the little extra hassle I might encounter in removal
> at some point won't get me back to heathen ways....
>
> Julian
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
> Mike & Elizabeth <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 3:07 PM
> To: jim.kosloskey at jim-kosloskey.com <jim.kosloskey at jim-kosloskey.com>;
> 'Pantera Owners Club of America' <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pilot Bearing Pull - Success, with a Caveat
>
> I have a new needle bearing sent to me by Quella when I ordered a
> replacement pressure plate, but this ordeal certainly has me
> reconsidering
> going to an oilite bronze bushing. Through all of the needle bearing v
> oilite threads, I don't recall anyone chiming in on the increased
> difficulty
> in pulling the needle bearing assembly.
> Per Larry Finsh's post, I could have a) left the current one alone as
> it
> didn't appear to be in need of replacement or b) replaced just the
> bearing
> core and left the retainer (?) alone and unblemished. To a), I've
> always
> considered replacement of the pilot one of those things you just do
> when you
> have everything else that far apart.
> Had the engine still been in the car, this would have been 10 times
> more
> difficult.
> Mike Thomas
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jim.kosloskey at jim-kosloskey.com <jim.kosloskey at jim-kosloskey.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 1:38 PM
> To: 'Mike & Elizabeth' <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Pilot Bearing Pull - Success, with a Caveat
> Mike,
> So, I may have missed it but will you be going with bearing or bushing
> in
> your new setup?
> Congratulations for persevering through the ordeal - now upward and
> onward.
> Jim Kosloskey
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On Behalf Of
> Mike
> & Elizabeth
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 2:33 PM
> To: 'Pantera Owners Club of America' <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Pilot Bearing Pull - Success, with a Caveat
> Well, I finally got the recalcitrant pilot bearing retainer to yield
> and
> come out. Huzzah!
>
> However, (see attached pics) I did manage to take a very little bit of
> material off of the crank beyond where the bearing sits during the
> grinding
> out of the retainer. Troubling and potentially very expensive
> question: is
> enough to cause a balance issue?
>
> Cautiously optimistic in Covington. Thanks again for all the
> suggestions
> and encouragement. I'm glad I didn't have to do this with it in the
> car.
>
> Mike Thomas
> _______________________________________________
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