[DeTomaso] ZF shifting problem
Pantdino
pantdino at aol.com
Mon Sep 12 19:39:23 EDT 2022
That is a poor choice for the gear oil. If you look at the label you'll see it says "safe for limited slip diffs" and "good for hypoid drives." There are no hypoid gearsets in a ZF, and ingredients that make is slippery enough for hypoids make it too slippery for the synchro rings in the ZF, so they'll wear out fast.
I use Red Line 75W-90 NS, which is less slippery, so the synchros work better.If you feel the limited slip clutches grabbing when you make a sharp turn you can add a little bit of their stuff to make it a little slipperier.
I think Jack has posted that the ZF has a differently limited slip system than domestic cars, too, so the common gear oils you find for sale are doubly unsuited
But the wrong gear oil won't cause the incomplete clutch release symptoms you are describing. Either a too-thick disc or the clutch release arm not fully extending would do that.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Asa Jay Laughton via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: John Donahue <demongusta at gmail.com>
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Mon, Sep 12, 2022 3:41 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF shifting problem
Hi John,
The trouble is the Pantera disc is thin compared to other applications people used to source parts from. If you ask for a disc for a 1971 mustang, it may be the right size but will be the wrong thickness. Asking for a Mustang pressure plate carries a similar problem due to different bob-weights that will hit the interior of a ZF bell housing.
If the disc is too thick, there might be just enough clearance when cold, but not enough when hot. That is my theory anyway.
I might be all wet on that but I’m certain the DeTomaso collective has experienced this problem before and will have other ideas.
Asa Jay
Sent via radio waves
> On Sep 12, 2022, at 15:30, John Donahue <demongusta at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Would a clutch disc be that sensitive to operating temperature?
>
>> On Sep 12, 2022, at 3:21 PM, Asa Jay Laughton via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>> I just had a call with Mark Mead in Spokane. Mark has a 1974 Pantera. He had restoration done somewhere else and now has a problem with the ZF.
>>
>> ZF was rebuilt by RBT. I don’t think the problem is the ZF. It’s either the gear lube or the clutch.
>>
>> Symptoms:
>> Cold drive all good, shifting fine.
>> After warm up, it will no longer come out of gear like the clutch is not disengaging.
>>
>> The place that put the ZF in, used Valvoline synthetic 75-90 gear lube. That’s all he knows. New master and slave, but not sure about clutch disc or pressure plate.
>>
>> I am out of town heading to SSCC with Mad Dog. I will be troubleshooting Mark’s car when I get back from all my trips at the end of September.
>>
>> In the meantime, I am looking for opinions about the Valvoline synthetic 75-90. Mark has talked to Drew Backlund, -THE- Pantera guy in Spokane from the 70’s and 80’s. Drew hasn’t worked on Pantera’s in about 30 years but he has Mark convinced that Redline 75-90 is the -only- gear lube that will actually work.
>>
>> I know it’s one of the best but I need a new refresher on the topic of lubes. Would using the Valvoline cause this issue? I’m thinking it might be an incorrect clutch disc, not so much the fluid but I won’t know more until late this month when I can touch the car.
>>
>> What do we think?
>> Thank you,
>> Asa Jay
>>
>> Sent via radio waves
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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>
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-------------- next part --------------
That is a poor choice for the gear oil. If you look at the label you'll
see it says "safe for limited slip diffs" and "good for hypoid drives."
There are no hypoid gearsets in a ZF, and ingredients that make is
slippery enough for hypoids make it too slippery for the synchro rings
in the ZF, so they'll wear out fast.
I use Red Line 75W-90 NS, which is less slippery, so the synchros work
better.
If you feel the limited slip clutches grabbing when you make a sharp
turn you can add a little bit of their stuff to make it a little
slipperier.
I think Jack has posted that the ZF has a differently limited slip
system than domestic cars, too, so the common gear oils you find for
sale are doubly unsuited
But the wrong gear oil won't cause the incomplete clutch release
symptoms you are describing. Either a too-thick disc or the clutch
release arm not fully extending would do that.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Asa Jay Laughton via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: John Donahue <demongusta at gmail.com>
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Mon, Sep 12, 2022 3:41 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF shifting problem
Hi John,
The trouble is the Pantera disc is thin compared to other applications
people used to source parts from. If you ask for a disc for a 1971
mustang, it may be the right size but will be the wrong thickness.
Asking for a Mustang pressure plate carries a similar problem due to
different bob-weights that will hit the interior of a ZF bell housing.
If the disc is too thick, there might be just enough clearance when
cold, but not enough when hot. That is my theory anyway.
I might be all wet on that but Iam certain the DeTomaso collective has
experienced this problem before and will have other ideas.
Asa Jay
Sent via radio waves
> On Sep 12, 2022, at 15:30, John Donahue <[1]demongusta at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> i>>?Would a clutch disc be that sensitive to operating temperature?
>
>> On Sep 12, 2022, at 3:21 PM, Asa Jay Laughton via DeTomaso
<[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>> I just had a call with Mark Mead in Spokane. Mark has a 1974
Pantera. He had restoration done somewhere else and now has a problem
with the ZF.
>>
>> ZF was rebuilt by RBT. I donat think the problem is the ZF. Itas
either the gear lube or the clutch.
>>
>> Symptoms:
>> Cold drive all good, shifting fine.
>> After warm up, it will no longer come out of gear like the clutch is
not disengaging.
>>
>> The place that put the ZF in, used Valvoline synthetic 75-90 gear
lube. Thatas all he knows. New master and slave, but not sure about
clutch disc or pressure plate.
>>
>> I am out of town heading to SSCC with Mad Dog. I will be
troubleshooting Markas car when I get back from all my trips at the
end of September.
>>
>> In the meantime, I am looking for opinions about the Valvoline
synthetic 75-90. Mark has talked to Drew Backlund, -THE- Pantera guy
in Spokane from the 70as and 80as. Drew hasnat worked on Panteraas in
about 30 years but he has Mark convinced that Redline 75-90 is the
-only- gear lube that will actually work.
>>
>> I know itas one of the best but I need a new refresher on the topic
of lubes. Would using the Valvoline cause this issue? Iam thinking it
might be an incorrect clutch disc, not so much the fluid but I wonat
know more until late this month when I can touch the car.
>>
>> What do we think?
>> Thank you,
>> Asa Jay
>>
>> Sent via radio waves
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [3]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
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