[DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
Charles Engles
cengles at cox.net
Sun Nov 6 09:06:03 EST 2022
Dear Will,
I seem to recall that the Ford SVO and perhaps the Dart Windsor blocks with the 9.2" deck height, permit you to bolt on Cleveland heads and intake manifolds and headers. Is that right?
Does it use the same motor mounts and ZF bellhousing?
Curious, Chuck Engles
-----Original Message-----
From: Will Kooiman [mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2022 5:40 AM
To: Ken Green; 'Dan'; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; Charles Engles
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
How about the cost?
If you have a .030 block with 1-2 damaged cylinders and if you are happy with your .030 pistons, just do 2 sleeves.
If you go back to standard, you have to buy 8 pistons, plus you need to rebalance, and for what?
What if you sonic test, and 2 more cylinders are thin?
If I had a machinist I trusted, I would be okay with 8 sleeves.
I didn't do that. Instead, I went with a 9.2" deck Dart block. Yes, I had to switch to a Windsor oil pan, oil pump, fuel pump, water pump, cam, and distributor gear (dist is the same, only the gear is different). But the Dart block is so much better, it's amazing.
On 11/6/22, 12:38 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Ken Green via DeTomaso" <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
These folks have sleeves from 1/16 to 1/8 thickness. The 1/16 would
require a minimum amount of material removal. Does that make a
difference?
[1]https://www.lasleeve.com/tech/faqs
Ken
On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 06:17:17 PM PDT, Charles Engles
<cengles at cox.net> wrote:
Dear Dan,
Hmmm. Yes, the experts can be wrong.
However, regarding the shop in business for forty years
that says they can sleeve all eight and it will be fine, stop for a
minute and ask yourself: "If that is true, then why do people fret
trying to find a good solid Cleveland block? Why do people go to the
effort to get them sonic checked for wall thickness? WHY do they do
that, IF the simple answer is to take any old 351C and simply sleeve
all eight cylinders???? Possibly, just possibly, because while it
can be done, the durability and longevity are dubious and poor??
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan [mailto:[2]dan at excaliburre.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2022 4:40 PM
To: 'Charles Engles'
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
Yeah, I was hoping someone had been down this path before.
After so many screw-ups at supposedly top notch engine shops I don't
know who to trust in that industry either.
The shop which has the engine now has been in business 40 years and
says they can sleeve all eight and it will be fine. But I'm not "sold".
Probably on SBC or GM big block but Cleveland's have such thin walls.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Engles <[3]cengles at cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2022 12:15 PM
To: 'Dan Courtney' <[4]dan at excaliburre.com>; 'MICHAEL DREW'
<[5]mikeldrew at aol.com>
Cc: [6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
Dear Dan,
The answers to the question are: 1) seek out a
reputable and reliable machinist and engine builder with actual
Cleveland experience and follow his recommendations; or 2) seek out
amateur, non-machinist, hear-say opinions and sort out the truth from
the (dis?) information.
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:[7]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
Behalf Of Dan Courtney
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2022 10:57 AM
To: MICHAEL DREW
Cc: [8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
Then the question becomes:Is it better to have a .030 block with one or
two non adjacent sleeves or a fully sleeved block at original bore?I've
been told you get heat transfer between cylinders on a Cleveland at or
over .030.And we all know there's already too much heat in a Pantera
engine. DanSent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: MICHAEL DREW
<[9]mikeldrew at aol.com> Date: 11/4/22 8:14 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Dan
<[10]dan at excaliburre.com> Cc: [11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve Dan,Sleeving all
eight cylinders is like putting eight plugs in a flat tire with one
hole in it!If you have a block that needs one or two sleeves, you
install one or two sleeves. MikeSent from my iPhone> On Nov 4, 2022, at
18:13, Dan <[12]dan at excaliburre.com> wrote:> > i>>? I'm having handful
of 351C blocks sonic tested.> > One is the Boss 351 that Dennis Quella
built for "The Winged Warrior"> in the early `80's.> > I'm wondering
if it would be advisable to sleeve all 8 cylinders to> bring it back
to original bore.> > Another option is to sleeve just one or two holes
and go with .030.> > > A 3^rd option is to sleeve two cylinders on an
original bore 2 bolt> block.> > > Over the years I've received advice
regarding sleeves from sleeving all> 8 holes makes for a stronger
block to sleeving a Cleveland can> interfere with the water jackets.>
> > Does anyone have an opinion on sleeving a 351C?> > > Dan> > > >
> Dan Courtney> > La Jolla, CA> > > [1][13]Dan at excaliburre.com> >
References> > 1. mailto:[14]Dan at excaliburre.com>
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References
1. https://www.lasleeve.com/tech/faqs
2. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
3. mailto:cengles at cox.net
4. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
5. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
7. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
8. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
9. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
10. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
13. mailto:Dan at excaliburre.com
14. mailto:Dan at excaliburre.com
15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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