[DeTomaso] Tire question
Christopher Kimball
ChrisVKimball at msn.com
Tue Mar 1 11:59:16 EST 2022
Great point.
________________________________
From: bill gaino <gaino at earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 4:09 AM
To: jderyke at aol.com <jderyke at aol.com>; ChrisVKimball at msn.com <ChrisVKimball at msn.com>; mikeldrew at aol.com <mikeldrew at aol.com>
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
I want to add to the conversation a point that I personally missed for many years. The importantce of bolt in valve stems. Most vehicles just have the pull through style stems that can fail at high speed. Make sure you use the short style that are all metal. Because if the valve gets slung out at 130 mph, it will not matter what the tire rating is! Bill 1362
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-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Mar 1, 2022 2:57 AM
To: ChrisVKimball at msn.com , mikeldrew at aol.com
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
Chris, I with you agree on 'mixing' tire brands. Most of the 40 years we've owned our Pantera including right now, it's had different brands front & rear. Some years, there simply weren't appropriate sizes available from one mfgr. And I don't fault you for wanting real speed rated STREET tires- its called 'insurance' for when your enthusiasm over-rides your good judgement. The absolute lowest rating I recommend for a Pantera is H-rated- 130 mph. Both ends of ours are V-rated.
-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Kimball
To: Mike Drew
Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America
Sent: Mon, Feb 28, 2022 9:25 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
Hi Mike (and everybody else!),
You are 100% correct--I need street tires. However, one of the things
I want to do once I get the car back is drive to Fun Rallys again,
which usually entails lots of long, straight roads, often in very hot
places. I can't confirm this, but it might have been possible that
when driving to past Fun Rallys I could have maybe driven for extended
periods of time at theoretical speeds of 125 to 135 mph with one or two
conceivable blasts to 155.
I'm not saying I actually did this, but I'm saying it might have been
kind of possible...
I appreciate all the help everyone has offered concerning tire sizes,
unfortunately, I'm more confused now than before. It reminds me of
what happens when someone asks, "what kind of drum heads should I use?"
The answer is always the same, "it depends!"
One of the things Roger Krause said was it wasn't a good idea to mix
different brands between front and rear, but since I don't want to do
any body modifications (even rolling the fender even a little), and
since I know 225 50s on the front and 295 50s on the back look fine and
don't rub, I may just go with the mix and match so I can stay with
those sizes. After all, that's how it was on my car for many years and
it seemed to work fine.
I'll take a look at the handy online tire size graphics and see what I
can figure out. Maybe if I can actually get new tires in time I'll be
able to drive to this year's Rally.
Thanks again for all the help and advice from everyone, I really do
appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Chris
__________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Drew
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 6:29 PM
To: Christopher Kimball
Cc: Steve Lisa ; Pantera Owners Club of America
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
Chris,
You `need' ZR rated tires? That's a ridiculous assertion.
First of all, you are driving your car on the STREET so you want street
tires. Not race tires. Race tires come with loads of compromises,
chief among them being severe unsuitability for driving in wet weather
conditions. You live in Seattle!
Secondly, ZR-rated tires are certified for 2 hours of continuous
running at speeds above 149 mph. Do you truly believe you will be
driving like that?
ZR tires can come with either W (168 mph) or Y (168 mph) speed ratings.
So strictly speaking, there is no Z speed rating. ZR just means `fast
radial' and the speed rating is either W or Y.
BFG radial T/A tires are only S-rated (112 mph). Does that mean they
will explode at 113 mph? Of course not. You can easily exceed the speed
rating with perfect safety, in short durations of a few minutes at a
time.
If you think you will be running for 30-40 minutes straight above 112
mph you may want to consider different options. However for the type of
use I think your car will see, if you stick to the 15-inch wheels, you
would probably be best served with the BFGs in appropriate sizes.
Good luck!
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 28, 2022, at 17:00, Christopher Kimball
wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info--I don't use my car on the track, but I have
been
> known to drive it thousands of miles across the country to Fun
Rallys,
> so I need tires that are Z rated since I might hypothetically drive
> rapidly.
>
> Aren't Hoosiers lower-speed tires?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris
>
__________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Steve Lisa
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 4:41 PM
> To: Christopher Kimball
> Cc: Jeff Detrich ; Julian Kift
> ; Pantera Owners Club of America
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
>
> I use Hoosier R7's. 225/50 in front and 275/50 in rear. They work
> great for racing and so far have no complaints at all and are
turning
> very competitive lap times.
> Presently, you won't be able to buy Avon's due to supply issues
...at
> least we can't. Roger Krause says they hard to get and he is only
> supplying his best customers.
> The R7's are much cheaper, last forever with little lap time def,
and
> are easy to get.
> Anyway, that's what we use.
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2022, 5:03 PM Christopher Kimball
> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,
> Roger Kraus recommended the same setup you describe with the
215
> 60 on
> the front. You said you went with a 245 50 on the front, but
> isn't
> that taller than a 215 60?
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
> From: Jeff Detrich
> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 11:26 AM
> To: Julian Kift
> Cc: Christopher Kimball ; Pantera
> Owners Club of
> America
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
> When I upgraded, there were no matching speed rated tires
except
> Avons.
> BACK: Avon 15" CR6ZZ are 295/50 are high speed rated - R
IIRC.
> Look
> and handle great.
> FRONT: Avon 15" CR6ZZ 215/60 same as above. I mounted them
but
> they
> look somewhat out of proportion to my eye. /60 is too thin and
> too
> tall. I switched to a Michelin speed rated tire 245/50R15 -
> sorry,
> don't remember the model, car is in the shop. Car looks
balanced
> and is
> balanced on the track.
> Pirelli Cinturato Classics are new to me. Would like hear more
> details.
> Good to hear car coming along.
> Jeff
> 6559
> On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 12:34 PM Julian Kift
> wrote:
> I think the 15" tires of choice are the Avon CR6ZZ or a
> Pirelli
> Cinturato P7 classic, but even the Pirelli 345/35/15
> replacement
> now
> has a VR designation with conflicting information on
speed
> rating
> quoted as Z or Y.
> Julian
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
> From: DeTomaso
> on
> behalf of
> Christopher Kimball
> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 10:04 AM
> To: Pantera Owners Club of America
>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Tire question
> Hi everyone,
> I haven't been contributing much to the Pantera community
> for a
> long
> while because my car has been undergoing an extensive
> restoration.
> Thanks for understanding; once I get my car back I'll
return
> once
> again
> to the realm of the Pantera faithful.
> At this point the light at the end of the tunnel is
shining
> brightly,
> and it appears my car should be done very soon.
> However, the tech who has been working on it told me when
he
> took
> it
> for a test drive recently the tires were so hard it was
> almost
> dangerous to corner!
> I know there have been a lot of tire discussions over the
> years,
> and
> now I'm hoping someone will remember the solution to my
tire
> question,
> which I'm sure has been dealt with already: Is it
possible
> for
> me to
> find new tires which are Z, W, or Y rated in the sizes
225
> 50 15
> (front), and either 295 50 15 or 285 50 15 (rear)?
> I'm not overly concerned with the price if I can get the
> sizes I
> need,
> but obviously if I can find something reasonably priced,
> that
> would be
> good.
> Thanks, I appreciate your help!
> Sincerely,
> Chris
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> 1. [1]mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
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> 3. [3]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 4. [4]mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
> 5. [5]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 6. [6]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 7. [7]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 8. [8]mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
> 9. [9]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 10. [10]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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References
1. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
2. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
3. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
4. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
6. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
7. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
8. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
11. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LRHjjUnmdkSfO7iqD8gt%2Brs7VmqjkqY6A3IWH7DkrvQ%3D&reserved=0
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13. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
14. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
17. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LRHjjUnmdkSfO7iqD8gt%2Brs7VmqjkqY6A3IWH7DkrvQ%3D&reserved=0
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Chris, I with you agree on 'mixing' tire brands. Most of the 40 years
we've owned our Pantera including right now, it's had different brands
front & rear. Some years, there simply weren't appropriate sizes
available from one mfgr. And I don't fault you for wanting real speed
rated STREET tires- its called 'insurance' for when your enthusiasm
over-rides your good judgement. The absolute lowest rating I recommend
for a Pantera is H-rated- 130 mph. Both ends of ours are V-rated.
-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Kimball
To: Mike Drew
Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America
Sent: Mon, Feb 28, 2022 9:25 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
Hi Mike (and everybody else!),
You are 100% correct--I need street tires. However, one of the
things
I want to do once I get the car back is drive to Fun Rallys again,
which usually entails lots of long, straight roads, often in very hot
places. I can't confirm this, but it might have been possible that
when driving to past Fun Rallys I could have maybe driven for
extended
periods of time at theoretical speeds of 125 to 135 mph with one or
two
conceivable blasts to 155.
I'm not saying I actually did this, but I'm saying it might have been
kind of possible...
I appreciate all the help everyone has offered concerning tire sizes,
unfortunately, I'm more confused now than before. It reminds me of
what happens when someone asks, "what kind of drum heads should I
use?"
The answer is always the same, "it depends!"
One of the things Roger Krause said was it wasn't a good idea to mix
different brands between front and rear, but since I don't want to do
any body modifications (even rolling the fender even a little), and
since I know 225 50s on the front and 295 50s on the back look fine
and
don't rub, I may just go with the mix and match so I can stay with
those sizes. After all, that's how it was on my car for many years
and
it seemed to work fine.
I'll take a look at the handy online tire size graphics and see what
I
can figure out. Maybe if I can actually get new tires in time I'll
be
able to drive to this year's Rally.
Thanks again for all the help and advice from everyone, I really do
appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Chris
__________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Drew
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 6:29 PM
To: Christopher Kimball
Cc: Steve Lisa ; Pantera Owners Club of
America
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
Chris,
You `need' ZR rated tires? That's a ridiculous assertion.
First of all, you are driving your car on the STREET so you want
street
tires. Not race tires. Race tires come with loads of compromises,
chief among them being severe unsuitability for driving in wet
weather
conditions. You live in Seattle!
Secondly, ZR-rated tires are certified for 2 hours of continuous
running at speeds above 149 mph. Do you truly believe you will be
driving like that?
ZR tires can come with either W (168 mph) or Y (168 mph) speed
ratings.
So strictly speaking, there is no Z speed rating. ZR just means `fast
radial' and the speed rating is either W or Y.
BFG radial T/A tires are only S-rated (112 mph). Does that mean they
will explode at 113 mph? Of course not. You can easily exceed the
speed
rating with perfect safety, in short durations of a few minutes at a
time.
If you think you will be running for 30-40 minutes straight above 112
mph you may want to consider different options. However for the type
of
use I think your car will see, if you stick to the 15-inch wheels,
you
would probably be best served with the BFGs in appropriate sizes.
Good luck!
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 28, 2022, at 17:00, Christopher Kimball
wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info--I don't use my car on the track, but I have
been
> known to drive it thousands of miles across the country to Fun
Rallys,
> so I need tires that are Z rated since I might hypothetically
drive
> rapidly.
>
> Aren't Hoosiers lower-speed tires?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris
>
__________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Steve Lisa
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 4:41 PM
> To: Christopher Kimball
> Cc: Jeff Detrich ; Julian Kift
> ; Pantera Owners Club of America
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
>
> I use Hoosier R7's. 225/50 in front and 275/50 in rear. They
work
> great for racing and so far have no complaints at all and are
turning
> very competitive lap times.
> Presently, you won't be able to buy Avon's due to supply issues
...at
> least we can't. Roger Krause says they hard to get and he is only
> supplying his best customers.
> The R7's are much cheaper, last forever with little lap time def,
and
> are easy to get.
> Anyway, that's what we use.
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2022, 5:03 PM Christopher Kimball
> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,
> Roger Kraus recommended the same setup you describe with the
215
> 60 on
> the front. You said you went with a 245 50 on the front,
but
> isn't
> that taller than a 215 60?
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
> From: Jeff Detrich
> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 11:26 AM
> To: Julian Kift
> Cc: Christopher Kimball ;
Pantera
> Owners Club of
> America
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
> When I upgraded, there were no matching speed rated tires
except
> Avons.
> BACK: Avon 15" CR6ZZ are 295/50 are high speed rated - R
IIRC.
> Look
> and handle great.
> FRONT: Avon 15" CR6ZZ 215/60 same as above. I mounted them
but
> they
> look somewhat out of proportion to my eye. /60 is too thin
and
> too
> tall. I switched to a Michelin speed rated tire 245/50R15 -
> sorry,
> don't remember the model, car is in the shop. Car looks
balanced
> and is
> balanced on the track.
> Pirelli Cinturato Classics are new to me. Would like hear
more
> details.
> Good to hear car coming along.
> Jeff
> 6559
> On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 12:34 PM Julian Kift
> wrote:
> I think the 15" tires of choice are the Avon CR6ZZ or a
> Pirelli
> Cinturato P7 classic, but even the Pirelli 345/35/15
> replacement
> now
> has a VR designation with conflicting information on
speed
> rating
> quoted as Z or Y.
> Julian
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
> From: DeTomaso
> on
> behalf of
> Christopher Kimball
> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 10:04 AM
> To: Pantera Owners Club of America
>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Tire question
> Hi everyone,
> I haven't been contributing much to the Pantera
community
> for a
> long
> while because my car has been undergoing an extensive
> restoration.
> Thanks for understanding; once I get my car back I'll
return
> once
> again
> to the realm of the Pantera faithful.
> At this point the light at the end of the tunnel is
shining
> brightly,
> and it appears my car should be done very soon.
> However, the tech who has been working on it told me
when
he
> took
> it
> for a test drive recently the tires were so hard it was
> almost
> dangerous to corner!
> I know there have been a lot of tire discussions over
the
> years,
> and
> now I'm hoping someone will remember the solution to my
tire
> question,
> which I'm sure has been dealt with already: Is it
possible
> for
> me to
> find new tires which are Z, W, or Y rated in the sizes
225
> 50 15
> (front), and either 295 50 15 or 285 50 15 (rear)?
> I'm not overly concerned with the price if I can get the
> sizes I
> need,
> but obviously if I can find something reasonably priced,
> that
> would be
> good.
> Thanks, I appreciate your help!
> Sincerely,
> Chris
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-------------- next part --------------
Great point.
__________________________________________________________________
From: bill gaino <gaino at earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 4:09 AM
To: jderyke at aol.com <jderyke at aol.com>; ChrisVKimball at msn.com
<ChrisVKimball at msn.com>; mikeldrew at aol.com <mikeldrew at aol.com>
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
I want to add to the conversation a point that I personally missed for
many years. The importantce of bolt in valve stems. Most vehicles just
have the pull through style stems that can fail at high speed. Make
sure you use the short style that are all metal. Because if the valve
gets slung out at 130 mph, it will not matter what the tire rating is!
Bill 1362
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-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Mar 1, 2022 2:57 AM
To: ChrisVKimball at msn.com , mikeldrew at aol.com
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
Chris, I with you agree on 'mixing' tire brands. Most of the 40 years
we've owned our Pantera including right now, it's had different brands
front & rear. Some years, there simply weren't appropriate sizes
available from one mfgr. And I don't fault you for wanting real speed
rated STREET tires- its called 'insurance' for when your enthusiasm
over-rides your good judgement. The absolute lowest rating I recommend
for a Pantera is H-rated- 130 mph. Both ends of ours are V-rated.
-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Kimball
To: Mike Drew
Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America
Sent: Mon, Feb 28, 2022 9:25 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
Hi Mike (and everybody else!),
You are 100% correct--I need street tires. However, one of the
things
I want to do once I get the car back is drive to Fun Rallys again,
which usually entails lots of long, straight roads, often in very hot
places. I can't confirm this, but it might have been possible that
when driving to past Fun Rallys I could have maybe driven for
extended
periods of time at theoretical speeds of 125 to 135 mph with one or
two
conceivable blasts to 155.
I'm not saying I actually did this, but I'm saying it might have been
kind of possible...
I appreciate all the help everyone has offered concerning tire sizes,
unfortunately, I'm more confused now than before. It reminds me of
what happens when someone asks, "what kind of drum heads should I
use?"
The answer is always the same, "it depends!"
One of the things Roger Krause said was it wasn't a good idea to mix
different brands between front and rear, but since I don't want to do
any body modifications (even rolling the fender even a little), and
since I know 225 50s on the front and 295 50s on the back look fine
and
don't rub, I may just go with the mix and match so I can stay with
those sizes. After all, that's how it was on my car for many years
and
it seemed to work fine.
I'll take a look at the handy online tire size graphics and see what
I
can figure out. Maybe if I can actually get new tires in time I'll
be
able to drive to this year's Rally.
Thanks again for all the help and advice from everyone, I really do
appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Chris
__________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Drew
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 6:29 PM
To: Christopher Kimball
Cc: Steve Lisa ; Pantera Owners Club of America
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
Chris,
You `need' ZR rated tires? That's a ridiculous assertion.
First of all, you are driving your car on the STREET so you want
street
tires. Not race tires. Race tires come with loads of compromises,
chief among them being severe unsuitability for driving in wet
weather
conditions. You live in Seattle!
Secondly, ZR-rated tires are certified for 2 hours of continuous
running at speeds above 149 mph. Do you truly believe you will be
driving like that?
ZR tires can come with either W (168 mph) or Y (168 mph) speed
ratings.
So strictly speaking, there is no Z speed rating. ZR just means `fast
radial' and the speed rating is either W or Y.
BFG radial T/A tires are only S-rated (112 mph). Does that mean they
will explode at 113 mph? Of course not. You can easily exceed the
speed
rating with perfect safety, in short durations of a few minutes at a
time.
If you think you will be running for 30-40 minutes straight above 112
mph you may want to consider different options. However for the type
of
use I think your car will see, if you stick to the 15-inch wheels,
you
would probably be best served with the BFGs in appropriate sizes.
Good luck!
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 28, 2022, at 17:00, Christopher Kimball
wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info--I don't use my car on the track, but I have
been
> known to drive it thousands of miles across the country to Fun
Rallys,
> so I need tires that are Z rated since I might hypothetically
drive
> rapidly.
>
> Aren't Hoosiers lower-speed tires?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris
>
__________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Steve Lisa
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 4:41 PM
> To: Christopher Kimball
> Cc: Jeff Detrich ; Julian Kift
> ; Pantera Owners Club of America
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
>
> I use Hoosier R7's. 225/50 in front and 275/50 in rear. They
work
> great for racing and so far have no complaints at all and are
turning
> very competitive lap times.
> Presently, you won't be able to buy Avon's due to supply issues
...at
> least we can't. Roger Krause says they hard to get and he is only
> supplying his best customers.
> The R7's are much cheaper, last forever with little lap time def,
and
> are easy to get.
> Anyway, that's what we use.
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2022, 5:03 PM Christopher Kimball
> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,
> Roger Kraus recommended the same setup you describe with the
215
> 60 on
> the front. You said you went with a 245 50 on the front,
but
> isn't
> that taller than a 215 60?
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
> From: Jeff Detrich
> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 11:26 AM
> To: Julian Kift
> Cc: Christopher Kimball ; Pantera
> Owners Club of
> America
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
> When I upgraded, there were no matching speed rated tires
except
> Avons.
> BACK: Avon 15" CR6ZZ are 295/50 are high speed rated - R
IIRC.
> Look
> and handle great.
> FRONT: Avon 15" CR6ZZ 215/60 same as above. I mounted them
but
> they
> look somewhat out of proportion to my eye. /60 is too thin
and
> too
> tall. I switched to a Michelin speed rated tire 245/50R15 -
> sorry,
> don't remember the model, car is in the shop. Car looks
balanced
> and is
> balanced on the track.
> Pirelli Cinturato Classics are new to me. Would like hear
more
> details.
> Good to hear car coming along.
> Jeff
> 6559
> On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 12:34 PM Julian Kift
> wrote:
> I think the 15" tires of choice are the Avon CR6ZZ or a
> Pirelli
> Cinturato P7 classic, but even the Pirelli 345/35/15
> replacement
> now
> has a VR designation with conflicting information on
speed
> rating
> quoted as Z or Y.
> Julian
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
> From: DeTomaso
> on
> behalf of
> Christopher Kimball
> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 10:04 AM
> To: Pantera Owners Club of America
>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Tire question
> Hi everyone,
> I haven't been contributing much to the Pantera
community
> for a
> long
> while because my car has been undergoing an extensive
> restoration.
> Thanks for understanding; once I get my car back I'll
return
> once
> again
> to the realm of the Pantera faithful.
> At this point the light at the end of the tunnel is
shining
> brightly,
> and it appears my car should be done very soon.
> However, the tech who has been working on it told me
when
he
> took
> it
> for a test drive recently the tires were so hard it was
> almost
> dangerous to corner!
> I know there have been a lot of tire discussions over
the
> years,
> and
> now I'm hoping someone will remember the solution to my
tire
> question,
> which I'm sure has been dealt with already: Is it
possible
> for
> me to
> find new tires which are Z, W, or Y rated in the sizes
225
> 50 15
> (front), and either 295 50 15 or 285 50 15 (rear)?
> I'm not overly concerned with the price if I can get the
> sizes I
> need,
> but obviously if I can find something reasonably priced,
> that
> would be
> good.
> Thanks, I appreciate your help!
> Sincerely,
> Chris
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> 1. [1]mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
> 2. [2]mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
> 3. [3]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 4. [4]mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
> 5. [5]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 6. [6]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 7. [7]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 8. [8]mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
> 9. [9]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 10. [10]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 11.
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2. [4]mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
3. [5]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
4. [6]mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
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7. [9]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
8. [10]mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
9. [11]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. [12]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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Chris, I with you agree on 'mixing' tire brands. Most of the 40 years
we've owned our Pantera including right now, it's had different brands
front & rear. Some years, there simply weren't appropriate sizes
available from one mfgr. And I don't fault you for wanting real speed
rated STREET tires- its called 'insurance' for when your enthusiasm
over-rides your good judgement. The absolute lowest rating I recommend
for a Pantera is H-rated- 130 mph. Both ends of ours are V-rated.
-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Kimball
To: Mike Drew
Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America
Sent: Mon, Feb 28, 2022 9:25 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
Hi Mike (and everybody else!),
You are 100% correct--I need street tires. However, one of the
things
I want to do once I get the car back is drive to Fun Rallys again,
which usually entails lots of long, straight roads, often in very hot
places. I can't confirm this, but it might have been possible that
when driving to past Fun Rallys I could have maybe driven for
extended
periods of time at theoretical speeds of 125 to 135 mph with one or
two
conceivable blasts to 155.
I'm not saying I actually did this, but I'm saying it might have been
kind of possible...
I appreciate all the help everyone has offered concerning tire sizes,
unfortunately, I'm more confused now than before. It reminds me of
what happens when someone asks, "what kind of drum heads should I
use?"
The answer is always the same, "it depends!"
One of the things Roger Krause said was it wasn't a good idea to mix
different brands between front and rear, but since I don't want to do
any body modifications (even rolling the fender even a little), and
since I know 225 50s on the front and 295 50s on the back look fine
and
don't rub, I may just go with the mix and match so I can stay with
those sizes. After all, that's how it was on my car for many years
and
it seemed to work fine.
I'll take a look at the handy online tire size graphics and see what
I
can figure out. Maybe if I can actually get new tires in time I'll
be
able to drive to this year's Rally.
Thanks again for all the help and advice from everyone, I really do
appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Chris
__________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Drew
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 6:29 PM
To: Christopher Kimball
Cc: Steve Lisa ; Pantera Owners Club of
America
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
Chris,
You `need' ZR rated tires? That's a ridiculous assertion.
First of all, you are driving your car on the STREET so you want
street
tires. Not race tires. Race tires come with loads of compromises,
chief among them being severe unsuitability for driving in wet
weather
conditions. You live in Seattle!
Secondly, ZR-rated tires are certified for 2 hours of continuous
running at speeds above 149 mph. Do you truly believe you will be
driving like that?
ZR tires can come with either W (168 mph) or Y (168 mph) speed
ratings.
So strictly speaking, there is no Z speed rating. ZR just means `fast
radial' and the speed rating is either W or Y.
BFG radial T/A tires are only S-rated (112 mph). Does that mean they
will explode at 113 mph? Of course not. You can easily exceed the
speed
rating with perfect safety, in short durations of a few minutes at a
time.
If you think you will be running for 30-40 minutes straight above 112
mph you may want to consider different options. However for the type
of
use I think your car will see, if you stick to the 15-inch wheels,
you
would probably be best served with the BFGs in appropriate sizes.
Good luck!
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 28, 2022, at 17:00, Christopher Kimball
wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info--I don't use my car on the track, but I have
been
> known to drive it thousands of miles across the country to Fun
Rallys,
> so I need tires that are Z rated since I might hypothetically
drive
> rapidly.
>
> Aren't Hoosiers lower-speed tires?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris
>
__________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Steve Lisa
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 4:41 PM
> To: Christopher Kimball
> Cc: Jeff Detrich ; Julian Kift
> ; Pantera Owners Club of America
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
>
> I use Hoosier R7's. 225/50 in front and 275/50 in rear. They
work
> great for racing and so far have no complaints at all and are
turning
> very competitive lap times.
> Presently, you won't be able to buy Avon's due to supply issues
...at
> least we can't. Roger Krause says they hard to get and he is only
> supplying his best customers.
> The R7's are much cheaper, last forever with little lap time def,
and
> are easy to get.
> Anyway, that's what we use.
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2022, 5:03 PM Christopher Kimball
> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,
> Roger Kraus recommended the same setup you describe with the
215
> 60 on
> the front. You said you went with a 245 50 on the front,
but
> isn't
> that taller than a 215 60?
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
> From: Jeff Detrich
> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 11:26 AM
> To: Julian Kift
> Cc: Christopher Kimball ;
Pantera
> Owners Club of
> America
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire question
> When I upgraded, there were no matching speed rated tires
except
> Avons.
> BACK: Avon 15" CR6ZZ are 295/50 are high speed rated - R
IIRC.
> Look
> and handle great.
> FRONT: Avon 15" CR6ZZ 215/60 same as above. I mounted them
but
> they
> look somewhat out of proportion to my eye. /60 is too thin
and
> too
> tall. I switched to a Michelin speed rated tire 245/50R15 -
> sorry,
> don't remember the model, car is in the shop. Car looks
balanced
> and is
> balanced on the track.
> Pirelli Cinturato Classics are new to me. Would like hear
more
> details.
> Good to hear car coming along.
> Jeff
> 6559
> On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 12:34 PM Julian Kift
> wrote:
> I think the 15" tires of choice are the Avon CR6ZZ or a
> Pirelli
> Cinturato P7 classic, but even the Pirelli 345/35/15
> replacement
> now
> has a VR designation with conflicting information on
speed
> rating
> quoted as Z or Y.
> Julian
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
> From: DeTomaso
> on
> behalf of
> Christopher Kimball
> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 10:04 AM
> To: Pantera Owners Club of America
>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Tire question
> Hi everyone,
> I haven't been contributing much to the Pantera
community
> for a
> long
> while because my car has been undergoing an extensive
> restoration.
> Thanks for understanding; once I get my car back I'll
return
> once
> again
> to the realm of the Pantera faithful.
> At this point the light at the end of the tunnel is
shining
> brightly,
> and it appears my car should be done very soon.
> However, the tech who has been working on it told me
when
he
> took
> it
> for a test drive recently the tires were so hard it was
> almost
> dangerous to corner!
> I know there have been a lot of tire discussions over
the
> years,
> and
> now I'm hoping someone will remember the solution to my
tire
> question,
> which I'm sure has been dealt with already: Is it
possible
> for
> me to
> find new tires which are Z, W, or Y rated in the sizes
225
> 50 15
> (front), and either 295 50 15 or 285 50 15 (rear)?
> I'm not overly concerned with the price if I can get the
> sizes I
> need,
> but obviously if I can find something reasonably priced,
> that
> would be
> good.
> Thanks, I appreciate your help!
> Sincerely,
> Chris
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References
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4. [27]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. [28]mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
6. [29]mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
7. [30]mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
8. [31]mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
9. [32]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
10. [33]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
11. [34]mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
12. [35]mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
13. [36]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
14. [37]mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
15. [38]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. [39]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
17. [40]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
18. [41]mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
19. [42]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
20. [43]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
21.
[44]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%252
22. [45]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
23. [46]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
24. [47]mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
25. [48]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
26. [49]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
27.
[50]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%252
28. [51]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
29.
[52]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
30. [53]mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
31. [54]mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
32. [55]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
33. [56]mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
34. [57]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
35. [58]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
36. [59]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
37. [60]mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
38. [61]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
39. [62]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
40.
[63]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
41. [64]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
42. [65]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
43. [66]mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
44. [67]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
45. [68]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
46.
[69]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
47. [70]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
48.
[71]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
49. [72]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
50.
[73]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
51. [74]mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
52. [75]mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
53. [76]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
54. [77]mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
55. [78]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
56. [79]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
57. [80]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
58. [81]mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
59. [82]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
60. [83]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
61.
[84]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
rver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%
7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaa
a%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LRH
jjUnmdkSfO7iqD8gt%2Brs7VmqjkqY6A3IWH7DkrvQ%3D&reserved=0
62. [85]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
63. [86]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
64. [87]mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
65. [88]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
66. [89]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
67.
[90]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
rver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%
7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaa
a%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LRH
jjUnmdkSfO7iqD8gt%2Brs7VmqjkqY6A3IWH7DkrvQ%3D&reserved=0
68. [91]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
69.
[92]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
rver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%
7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaa
a%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LRH
jjUnmdkSfO7iqD8gt%2Brs7VmqjkqY6A3IWH7DkrvQ%3D&reserved=0
70.
[93]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
rver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%
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71. [94]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
72.
[95]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
rver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%
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References
1. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fpages%2Fslickpaintcom%2F129049637149634%3Fref%3Dts%26fref%3Dts&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=21TnWMW141vDVEOTP7gTbUcfNVQ3bzu1L1oBWZVB2Z8%3D&reserved=0
2. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slickpaint.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=mWtQj55mY8QSXpqlU2bdPiBPrKuam6ZlO6m6Gj5WgRE%3D&reserved=0
3. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
4. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
5. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
6. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
9. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
10. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
13. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LRHjjUnmdkSfO7iqD8gt%2Brs7VmqjkqY6A3IWH7DkrvQ%3D&reserved=0
14. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
15. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
16. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
17. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
19. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LRHjjUnmdkSfO7iqD8gt%2Brs7VmqjkqY6A3IWH7DkrvQ%3D&reserved=0
20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
21. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LRHjjUnmdkSfO7iqD8gt%2Brs7VmqjkqY6A3IWH7DkrvQ%3D&reserved=0
22. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LRHjjUnmdkSfO7iqD8gt%2Brs7VmqjkqY6A3IWH7DkrvQ%3D&reserved=0
23. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LRHjjUnmdkSfO7iqD8gt%2Brs7VmqjkqY6A3IWH7DkrvQ%3D&reserved=0
24. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
25. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
26. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
27. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
28. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
29. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
30. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
31. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
32. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
33. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
34. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
35. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
36. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
37. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
38. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
39. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
40. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
41. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
42. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
43. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
44. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%252
45. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
46. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
47. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
48. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
49. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
50. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%252
51. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
52. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
53. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
54. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
55. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
56. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
57. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
58. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
59. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
60. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
61. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
62. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
63. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
64. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
65. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
66. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
67. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
68. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
69. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
70. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
71. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
72. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
73. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
74. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
75. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
76. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
77. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
78. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
79. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
80. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
81. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
82. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
83. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
84. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LRHjjUnmdkSfO7iqD8gt%2Brs7VmqjkqY6A3IWH7DkrvQ%3D&reserved=0
85. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
86. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
87. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
88. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
89. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
90. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LRHjjUnmdkSfO7iqD8gt%2Brs7VmqjkqY6A3IWH7DkrvQ%3D&reserved=0
91. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
92. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LRHjjUnmdkSfO7iqD8gt%2Brs7VmqjkqY6A3IWH7DkrvQ%3D&reserved=0
93. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LRHjjUnmdkSfO7iqD8gt%2Brs7VmqjkqY6A3IWH7DkrvQ%3D&reserved=0
94. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
95. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LRHjjUnmdkSfO7iqD8gt%2Brs7VmqjkqY6A3IWH7DkrvQ%3D&reserved=0
96. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e8ce76ea2404dcafcd308d9fb7c62bb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637817333925834772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LRHjjUnmdkSfO7iqD8gt%2Brs7VmqjkqY6A3IWH7DkrvQ%3D&reserved=0
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