[DeTomaso] Correct amount of oil for an Armondo 10 qt pan.
jderyke at aol.com
jderyke at aol.com
Sun Jul 17 21:39:53 EDT 2022
FWIW, I've been using an original "10-qt" Aviaid oil pan and stock dipstick (verified for proper length) since 1985. I've always run 6-1/2 to 7 qts of 10W30 along with a remote oil filter and a remote air-to-water Laminova oil cooler, all plumbed together with dash-8 Aeroquip lines. Never checked to see how much oil all this holds.
Interestingly, in a past episode of Engine Masters on TV, they determined (BBC on Westech's dynomometer in So-Cal) that running a full 8 qts of oil (recommended in their Moroso racing pan) above 5500 rpms, oil foaming radically reduce oil pressure (from 60 psi to 25 psi),
Draining 1 qt INCREASED oil pressure by 5 psi above 5500, and removing a second (to 6 total quarts, including what was in the filter) oil pressure again went up above 5500. Horsepower also increased by as much as 40 horses!. This makes me feel vindicated about always running only 6-7 qts in our engine's '10-qt' pan.
My take-away from all this is, dyno-tuning your engine combo tells much more than just horsepower bragging rights. And to be 'safe' if your hot-rod 'Silver State' Cleveland has never been on a dyno and you have a10-qt oil pan, stay away from extended use of 6000 rpms until you know oil foaming isn't a problem at an 8+ qt fill!.
YMMV- J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike & Elizabeth <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
To: 'Christopher Kimball' <chrisvkimball at msn.com>; 'Asa Jay Laughton' <asajay at asajay.com>; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Sun, Jul 17, 2022 5:24 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Correct amount of oil for an Armondo 10 qt pan.
Chris, heed Mike D's advice and measure from the tip of the dip to the cup at the upper end of the stick. It should be 38". If that is the case, then the stock markings on the stick are your indication of oil level.
Mike T.
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On Behalf Of Christopher Kimball
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 3:54 PM
To: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Correct amount of oil for an Armondo 10 qt pan.
Thank you for your input.
I do have a "full" mark on the dipstick that was made years ago after I installed the new 10 quart Armando pan.
I think I will probably add a couple more quarts, totaling eight in all, because that should bring the level up to the line that I scribed onto the dipstick at that time. 8 quarts may be a little low if it is truly a 10 court pan, however, after seeing some of the comments made earlier, 8 to 9 quarts seems sufficient for a pan of that type.
Shortening the tube would only make things worse, I would actually have to shorten the dipstick in order to have the original dipstick markings show correctly, which I am a reticent to do. I will probably just leave things as is, and any new owner will have to simply know that the new mark on the dipstick is the full line.
Thanks again for all your help. Now that I have my car back you can look forward with eager anticipation all the silly questions I will be putting on the forum! 😄
Sincerely,
Chris
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S9+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Asa Jay Laughton via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 7/17/22 1:39 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Correct amount of oil for an Armondo 10 qt pan.
I can attest to some third-party dipstick tubes for the Pantera being too long. We had a Pantera owner here in Spokane (transplant from
California) who was constantly blowing oil out everywhere. He had a 10-qt pan and it took 10+ quarts to read full on his dipstick. But all the symptoms were that it was overfilled.
Once I found out it had an aftermarket dipstick tube on it, we drained the pan and put the recommended number of quarts in, based on feedback here and which pan was installed. Once that was done, we cut the end of the dipstick tube so the full mark on the dispstick read full. Another method is to fill the proper amount and then scribe a new mark on the dipstick. I preferred cutting the tube so we were using the stock marks, making the next owner comfortable with the readings and not wondering what the extra marks would have been.
Mike Drew is correct.
In Chris' case, if the dipstick were properly "re-marked" when the new larger pan was put in years ago, then that is the mark they should probably use. At least to get started.
Maybe worth a dip in the archives to figure out which pan he originally purchased too. ;)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired Spokane County ARES-RACES-ACS EC/RO
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On 7/17/2022 12:37, MICHAEL DREW via DeTomaso wrote:
> Mike,
>
> You are exactly right. The ONLY thing that dictates how much oil goes into the pan is the distance between the top of the oil and the bottom of the rotating assembly. That distance is fixed by the dipstick. You could hang a pan the size of Lake Michigan under the engine and the oil quantity would still be determined by the stock dipstick.
>
> (This presumes that the dipstick is actually correct which is by no
> means a given. The TSB shows what the proper length should be—38
> inches from cup to tip. On Lori’s 1971 the dipstick was too short
> which meant there was too much oil in the engine. Rather than
> lengthening the dipstick, instead we cut the appropriate amount from
> the back of the tube which had the same effect.)
>
> The aftermarket “10-quart” pans are not quite that generous. Most people find they require 8.5-9 quarts including a bone dry filter. If you pre-fill the filter it will easily hold a half quart which would then reduce the amount you need to pour into the engine…..
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 17, 2022, at 15:17, Mike & Elizabeth <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Please see Chris' note below. I have a 10 qt pan in my car as well and
>> was never under the impression that you needed to use a different mark
>> on the dipstick. It should read the same for a stock pan as for one of
>> the baffled 10-qt pans. You just have to put more oil in. I also seem
>> to remember that it actually takes about 8.5 qts rather than the `10',
>> being sure to run it to fill the oil filter before final measure.
>>
>>
>> Please refresh my memory.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Mike Thomas
>>
>>
>> From: Christopher Kimball <ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 10:36 AM
>> To: Mike & Elizabeth <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Need a new name for Pandora
>>
>>
>> I'll give it a couple of months--there are still things which need to
>> be addressed, such as the oil pan. It appears there is confusion as to
>> what pan I have on the car. back in 07 or so I bought what I think is
>> a 10 qt Armondo pan, but I believe Denny only put 6 quarts in the car,
>> since he must not have known the dipstick's original markings weren't
>> correct after installing the new pan. I had a mark I made showing the
>> correct fill line I added, so I have to figure out what the correct
>> amount of oil should be.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>
>> From: Mike & Elizabeth <[1]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 9:29 AM
>> To: [2]chrisvkimball at msn.com <[3]chrisvkimball at msn.com>
>> Subject: Need a new name for Pandora
>>
>>
>> Chris, now that you have your car back it may be a good idea to think
>> of a new name for her so we can move on from Pandora . . .
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
>> 2. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
>> 3. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
FWIW, I've been using an original "10-qt" Aviaid oil pan and stock
dipstick (verified for proper length) since 1985. I've always run
6-1/2 to 7 qts of 10W30 along with a remote oil filter and a remote
air-to-water Laminova oil cooler, all plumbed together with dash-8
Aeroquip lines. Never checked to see how much oil all this holds.
Interestingly, in a past episode of Engine Masters on TV, they
determined (BBC on Westech's dynomometer in So-Cal) that running a full
8 qts of oil (recommended in their Moroso racing pan) above 5500 rpms,
oil foaming radically reduce oil pressure (from 60 psi to 25 psi),
Draining 1 qt INCREASED oil pressure by 5 psi above 5500, and removing
a second (to 6 total quarts, including what was in the filter) oil
pressure again went up above 5500. Horsepower also increased by as much
as 40 horses!. This makes me feel vindicated about always running only
6-7 qts in our engine's '10-qt' pan.
My take-away from all this is, dyno-tuning your engine combo tells much
more than just horsepower bragging rights. And to be 'safe' if your
hot-rod 'Silver State' Cleveland has never been on a dyno and you have
a10-qt oil pan, stay away from extended use of 6000 rpms until you know
oil foaming isn't a problem at an 8+ qt fill!.
YMMV- J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike & Elizabeth <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
To: 'Christopher Kimball' <chrisvkimball at msn.com>; 'Asa Jay Laughton'
<asajay at asajay.com>; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Sun, Jul 17, 2022 5:24 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Correct amount of oil for an Armondo 10 qt pan.
Chris, heed Mike D's advice and measure from the tip of the dip to the
cup at the upper end of the stick. It should be 38". If that is the
case, then the stock markings on the stick are your indication of oil
level.
Mike T.
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On Behalf
Of Christopher Kimball
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 3:54 PM
To: Asa Jay Laughton <[2]asajay at asajay.com>;
[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Correct amount of oil for an Armondo 10 qt pan.
Thank you for your input.
I do have a "full" mark on the dipstick that was made years ago after I
installed the new 10 quart Armando pan.
I think I will probably add a couple more quarts, totaling eight in
all, because that should bring the level up to the line that I scribed
onto the dipstick at that time. 8 quarts may be a little low if it is
truly a 10 court pan, however, after seeing some of the comments made
earlier, 8 to 9 quarts seems sufficient for a pan of that type.
Shortening the tube would only make things worse, I would actually have
to shorten the dipstick in order to have the original dipstick markings
show correctly, which I am a reticent to do. I will probably just leave
things as is, and any new owner will have to simply know that the new
mark on the dipstick is the full line.
Thanks again for all your help. Now that I have my car back you can
look forward with eager anticipation all the silly questions I will be
putting on the forum! d-
Sincerely,
Chris
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S9+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable
smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Asa Jay Laughton via DeTomaso
<[4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 7/17/22 1:39 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Correct amount of oil for an Armondo 10 qt pan.
I can attest to some third-party dipstick tubes for the Pantera being
too long. We had a Pantera owner here in Spokane (transplant from
California) who was constantly blowing oil out everywhere. He had a
10-qt pan and it took 10+ quarts to read full on his dipstick. But
all the symptoms were that it was overfilled.
Once I found out it had an aftermarket dipstick tube on it, we drained
the pan and put the recommended number of quarts in, based on feedback
here and which pan was installed. Once that was done, we cut the end
of the dipstick tube so the full mark on the dispstick read full.
Another method is to fill the proper amount and then scribe a new mark
on the dipstick. I preferred cutting the tube so we were using the
stock marks, making the next owner comfortable with the readings and
not wondering what the extra marks would have been.
Mike Drew is correct.
In Chris' case, if the dipstick were properly "re-marked" when the new
larger pan was put in years ago, then that is the mark they should
probably use. At least to get started.
Maybe worth a dip in the archives to figure out which pan he originally
purchased too. ;)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired Spokane County
ARES-RACES-ACS EC/RO
******************************
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On 7/17/2022 12:37, MICHAEL DREW via DeTomaso wrote:
> Mike,
>
> You are exactly right. The ONLY thing that dictates how much oil goes
into the pan is the distance between the top of the oil and the bottom
of the rotating assembly. That distance is fixed by the dipstick. You
could hang a pan the size of Lake Michigan under the engine and the oil
quantity would still be determined by the stock dipstick.
>
> (This presumes that the dipstick is actually correct which is by no
> means a given. The TSB shows what the proper length should bea38
> inches from cup to tip. On Lorias 1971 the dipstick was too short
> which meant there was too much oil in the engine. Rather than
> lengthening the dipstick, instead we cut the appropriate amount from
> the back of the tube which had the same effect.)
>
> The aftermarket a10-quarta pans are not quite that generous. Most
people find they require 8.5-9 quarts including a bone dry filter. If
you pre-fill the filter it will easily hold a half quart which would
then reduce the amount you need to pour into the enginea|..
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 17, 2022, at 15:17, Mike & Elizabeth
<[8]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> i>>? Please see Chris' note below. I have a 10 qt pan in my car as
well and
>> was never under the impression that you needed to use a different
mark
>> on the dipstick. It should read the same for a stock pan as for
one of
>> the baffled 10-qt pans. You just have to put more oil in. I
also seem
>> to remember that it actually takes about 8.5 qts rather than the
`10',
>> being sure to run it to fill the oil filter before final measure.
>>
>>
>> Please refresh my memory.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Mike Thomas
>>
>>
>> From: Christopher Kimball <[9]ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 10:36 AM
>> To: Mike & Elizabeth <[10]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Need a new name for Pandora
>>
>>
>> I'll give it a couple of months--there are still things which
need to
>> be addressed, such as the oil pan. It appears there is confusion
as to
>> what pan I have on the car. back in 07 or so I bought what I
think is
>> a 10 qt Armondo pan, but I believe Denny only put 6 quarts in the
car,
>> since he must not have known the dipstick's original markings
weren't
>> correct after installing the new pan. I had a mark I made
showing the
>> correct fill line I added, so I have to figure out what the
correct
>> amount of oil should be.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
_____________________________________________________________________
>>
>> From: Mike & Elizabeth <[1][11]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 9:29 AM
>> To: [2][12]chrisvkimball at msn.com <[3][13]chrisvkimball at msn.com>
>> Subject: Need a new name for Pandora
>>
>>
>> Chris, now that you have your car back it may be a good idea to
think
>> of a new name for her so we can move on from Pandora . . .
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:[14]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
>> 2. mailto:[15]chrisvkimball at msn.com
>> 3. mailto:[16]chrisvkimball at msn.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
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