[DeTomaso] Pantera down

Steve Lisa stevelisa at patentit.com
Thu Oct 28 12:10:22 EDT 2021


160.3 mph with the small early stock GTS splitter.  The nose seemed fine.
We had no issues on the banking or braking/turning.  Of course, we were on
banking and. It going 160 mph around flat corners at Daytona.

We are on 8 inch fronts 10 inch rear wheels with 225/15 front and 275/15
rear Hoosiers R7.

I saw my prior email on engine failure was inconsistent.  The surge in oil
pressure made us think main bearing.  Then, the rod end cap bolt banged out
and sent the rod end/cap through the oil pan.  I will update when we get
back.  The bottom end had not been updated from our prior builder.




On Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 10:17 AM Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:

> Dear Steve,
>
>              Is it correct that the Grp3 Pantera did 160+ mph at Daytona?
>  If so, without a front spoiler (?), then how well was it planted at that
> speed?   Stock wheels and treaded tires or were you running slicks?
>
>                          Curious, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
> Behalf Of Steve Lisa
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 10:53 PM
> To: Will Kooiman
> Cc: List DeTomaso Forum
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera down
>
> Thanks, Will.
>
> A bad day racing is better than any day in the office, especially in a
> rare car like the Pantera.
>
> BTW, the Pantera had one timed session....best lap was 2:11.0  with
> theoretical best (based on sectors) of 2:09.  We may with a few more
> sessions got a few more seconds off that.  We would not have gone faster
> top end than 162-63 as we had the rev limiter set at 6100 rpm and we're
> already there.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 8:49 PM Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Damnit.  I wish I were there.
> >
> > It really sucks to break, but as others have said that's racing.
> >
> > Still, I'd rather be on a track and break something than be at home,
> > doing the 9-5 in my home office.
> >
> > The last time I went to the track, was one of the few times I haven't
> > broken something.  I boiled my brake fluid, and ran right on the edge
> > of brake fade, but everything held together.  That's on my street driven
> Viper.
> >
> > You are an inspiration.  Be safe.
> >
> >
> > On 10/27/21, 6:14 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Larry Stock" <
> > detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> > larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
> >
> >        We get it, under 2 minutes is a great time
> >
> >
> >
> >        From: Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com>
> >        Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 2:37 PM
> >        To: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
> >        Cc: List DeTomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> >        Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera down
> >
> >
> >        I meant to say 1:58.3 lap time ....not 158.3
> >
> >
> >        On Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 17:10 Steve Lisa <[1]stevelisa at patentit.com
> >
> >        wrote:
> >
> >        I am not sure....we had a spike in oil pressure that made us
> > think it
> >        was a rod bearing...but it was only a few seconds then
> > stabilized for a
> >        few laps.  Then, we blew up next session with a rod cap sticking
> out
> >        the pan. So, we thing we started with a main going bad that
> vibrated
> >        the rod end bolt out.  In the meantime, the  Panoz turned it's
> > fasted
> >        lap yet at Daytona 158.3 with 178 top speed.  So we are focused
> > in it
> >        now.  We are just going to wait til we get home to diagnose the
> > issue
> >        with Pantera.
> >
> >
> >        Frankly, we had a crap motor builder for a while, and this Clevor
> >        bottom end was built by him.  We had it "looked at" by our current
> >        motor builder while our true Cleveland race motor was getting
> built,
> >        and he freshened the top end but not the bottom which he held
> > his nose
> >        for.  So this is the last of our crap from that old builder, and
> it
> >        went out with a bang.
> >
> >
> >        I am pissed , but that is racing and we have another car to focus
> on
> >        and a reason to get the proper Cleveland and exhaust in.
> >
> >
> >        By the way, the Pantera was a crowd pleaser and handling quite
> well.
> >        What a shame.
> >
> >
> >
> >        On Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 16:49 Larry Stock
> > <[2]larrys at panteraparts.com
> > >
> >        wrote:
> >
> >          Bummer Dude,
> >          I have spun many a rod bearing, but never a Main Bearing, are
> you
> >          sure about that?
> >          Larry
> >          On 10/27/21, 1:11 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Steve Lisa"
> >          <[3]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> >          [4]stevelisa at patentit.com> wrote:
> >                 All,
> >                 Pantera spun a main bearing the lost a connecting rod,
> with
> >          expected
> >                 results.A  We are down for the weekend.A A
> >                 We had a spike in oil pressure, which then equalized at
> 55
> >          psi and 250
> >                 degrees.A  The next session we lost the engine. Rev
> minter
> >          was set at
> >                 6000A A
> >                 For what it's worth, top speed on on our lap it 160
> > mph.A I
> >          am trying
> >                 to get a pic for you of the rid hanging out the pan.
> >              _______________________________________________
> >              Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> >              Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >              DeTomaso mailing list
> >              [5]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >              [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >              To manage your subscription (change email address,
> > unsubscribe,
> >          etc.) use the links above.
> >              Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> >          forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future
> >          members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission
> to
> >          maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> >
> >     References
> >
> >        1. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
> >        2. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
> >        3. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> >        4. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
> >        5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >        6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >     _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> >     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >     DeTomaso mailing list
> >     DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >     http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> >     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> > etc.) use the links above.
> >
> >     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list.
> > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
> > approve the archiving of list messages.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
   160.3 mph with the small early stock GTS splitter.A  The nose seemed
   fine.A  We had no issues on the banking or braking/turning.A  Of
   course, we were on banking and. It going 160 mph around flat corners at
   Daytona.
   We are on 8 inch fronts 10 inch rear wheels with 225/15 front and
   275/15 rear Hoosiers R7.A A
   I saw my prior email on engine failure was inconsistent.A  The surge in
   oil pressure made us think main bearing.A  Then, the rod end cap bolt
   banged out and sent the rod end/cap through the oil pan.A  I will
   update when we get back.A  The bottom end had not been updated from our
   prior builder.
   On Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 10:17 AM Charles Engles <[1]cengles at cox.net>
   wrote:

     Dear Steve,
     A  A  A  A  A  A  A Is it correct that the Grp3 Pantera did 160+ mph
     at Daytona?A  A If so, without a front spoiler (?), then how well
     was it planted at that speed?A  A Stock wheels and treaded tires or
     were you running slicks?
     A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A Curious, Chuck Engles
     -----Original Message-----
     From: DeTomaso [mailto:[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
     On Behalf Of Steve Lisa
     Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 10:53 PM
     To: Will Kooiman
     Cc: List DeTomaso Forum
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera down
     Thanks, Will.
     A bad day racing is better than any day in the office, especially in
     a rare car like the Pantera.
     BTW, the Pantera had one timed session....best lap was 2:11.0A  with
     theoretical best (based on sectors) of 2:09.A  We may with a few
     more sessions got a few more seconds off that.A  We would not have
     gone faster top end than 162-63 as we had the rev limiter set at
     6100 rpm and we're already there.
     On Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 8:49 PM Will Kooiman
     <[3]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
     > Damnit.A  I wish I were there.
     >
     > It really sucks to break, but as others have said that's racing.
     >
     > Still, I'd rather be on a track and break something than be at
     home,
     > doing the 9-5 in my home office.
     >
     > The last time I went to the track, was one of the few times I
     haven't
     > broken something.A  I boiled my brake fluid, and ran right on the
     edge
     > of brake fade, but everything held together.A  That's on my street
     driven Viper.
     >
     > You are an inspiration.A  Be safe.
     >
     >
     > i>>?On 10/27/21, 6:14 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Larry Stock" <
     > [4]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
     > [5]larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
     >
     >A  A  A  A  We get it, under 2 minutes is a great time
     >
     >
     >
     >A  A  A  A  From: Steve Lisa <[6]stevelisa at patentit.com>
     >A  A  A  A  Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 2:37 PM
     >A  A  A  A  To: Larry Stock <[7]larrys at panteraparts.com>
     >A  A  A  A  Cc: List DeTomaso Forum
     <[8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     >A  A  A  A  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera down
     >
     >
     >A  A  A  A  I meant to say 1:58.3 lap time ....not 158.3
     >
     >
     >A  A  A  A  On Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 17:10 Steve Lisa
     <[1][9]stevelisa at patentit.com>
     >A  A  A  A  wrote:
     >
     >A  A  A  A  I am not sure....we had a spike in oil pressure that
     made us
     > think it
     >A  A  A  A  was a rod bearing...but it was only a few seconds then
     > stabilized for a
     >A  A  A  A  few laps.A  Then, we blew up next session with a rod
     cap sticking out
     >A  A  A  A  the pan. So, we thing we started with a main going bad
     that vibrated
     >A  A  A  A  the rod end bolt out.A  In the meantime, theA  Panoz
     turned it's
     > fasted
     >A  A  A  A  lap yet at Daytona 158.3 with 178 top speed.A  So we
     are focused
     > in it
     >A  A  A  A  now.A  We are just going to wait til we get home to
     diagnose the
     > issue
     >A  A  A  A  with Pantera.
     >
     >
     >A  A  A  A  Frankly, we had a crap motor builder for a while, and
     this Clevor
     >A  A  A  A  bottom end was built by him.A  We had it "looked at" by
     our current
     >A  A  A  A  motor builder while our true Cleveland race motor was
     getting built,
     >A  A  A  A  and he freshened the top end but not the bottom which
     he held
     > his nose
     >A  A  A  A  for.A  So this is the last of our crap from that old
     builder, and it
     >A  A  A  A  went out with a bang.
     >
     >
     >A  A  A  A  I am pissed , but that is racing and we have another
     car to focus on
     >A  A  A  A  and a reason to get the proper Cleveland and exhaust
     in.
     >
     >
     >A  A  A  A  By the way, the Pantera was a crowd pleaser and
     handling quite well.
     >A  A  A  A  What a shame.
     >
     >
     >
     >A  A  A  A  On Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 16:49 Larry Stock
     > <[2][10]larrys at panteraparts.com
     > >
     >A  A  A  A  wrote:
     >
     >A  A  A  A  A  Bummer Dude,
     >A  A  A  A  A  I have spun many a rod bearing, but never a Main
     Bearing, are you
     >A  A  A  A  A  sure about that?
     >A  A  A  A  A  Larry
     >A  A  A  A  A  On 10/27/21, 1:11 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Steve
     Lisa"
     >A  A  A  A  A  <[3][11]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on
     behalf of
     >A  A  A  A  A  [4][12]stevelisa at patentit.com> wrote:
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A All,
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A Pantera spun a main bearing the lost a
     connecting rod, with
     >A  A  A  A  A  expected
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A results.AA  We are down for the weekend.A
     A
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A We had a spike in oil pressure, which
     then equalized at 55
     >A  A  A  A  A  psi and 250
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A degrees.AA  The next session we lost the
     engine. Rev minter
     >A  A  A  A  A  was set at
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A 6000A A
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A For what it's worth, top speed on on our
     lap it 160
     > mph.A I
     >A  A  A  A  A  am trying
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A to get a pic for you of the rid hanging
     out the pan.
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A
     _______________________________________________
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A  Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A  DeTomaso mailing list
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A  [5][13]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A
     [6][14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A  To manage your subscription (change email
     address,
     > unsubscribe,
     >A  A  A  A  A  etc.) use the links above.
     >A  A  A  A  A  A  A  Members who post to this list grant license to
     the list to
     >A  A  A  A  A  forward any message posted here to all past,
     current, or future
     >A  A  A  A  A  members of the list. They also grant the list owner
     permission to
     >A  A  A  A  A  maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list
     messages.
     >
     >A  A  A References
     >
     >A  A  A  A  1. mailto:[15]stevelisa at patentit.com
     >A  A  A  A  2. mailto:[16]larrys at panteraparts.com
     >A  A  A  A  3. mailto:[17]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  A  A  A  4. mailto:[18]stevelisa at patentit.com
     >A  A  A  A  5. mailto:[19]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  A  A  A  6.
     [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >A  A  A _______________________________________________
     >
     >
     >A  A  A Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     >A  A  A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     >A  A  A DeTomaso mailing list
     >A  A  A [21]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >A  A
     A [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >
     >A  A  A To manage your subscription (change email address,
     unsubscribe,
     > etc.) use the links above.
     >
     >A  A  A Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
     forward
     > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
     the list.
     > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
     or
     > approve the archiving of list messages.
     >
     >
     >

References

   1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   3. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
   4. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   5. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
   6. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
   7. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
   8. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   9. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
  10. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
  11. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  12. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
  13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  15. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
  16. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
  17. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  18. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
  19. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


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