[DeTomaso] Stock early exhaust headers
Steve Lisa
stevelisa at patentit.com
Fri Oct 8 21:31:01 EDT 2021
Mike,
Thanks for all that information. We have exactly that setup with fully
gutted GTS mufflers for our Cleveland engine.
The Clevor engine with the Windsor block will not fit that setup. And, for
these early races we are showing up with the stock headers and custom
baffled stock mufflers per the pre-73 FIA rules. The better setup that
found its way to most GR3 cars was not approved to '74.
So, as odd as it sou D's (pub intended). So far both HSR and SOVREN did not
notice a 500 HP Clevor engine, but did notice the stock exhaust headers and
quiet (custom baffled) stick mufflers. For Daytona, we have been classes
in HSR Race Group 3 ('72 and earlier FIA cars), not the faster Group 6 for
'73 and later FIA, Production and Trans Am cars.
We can absolutely feel the losses from the crap stock early exhaust, and
yes the headers are junk and need constant welding. But, with 500 HP and
500 ft lbs of Clevor torque, we already need to soft pedal a bit until the
car is well established in the very early pre-73 category. So, we are
walking a thin line. Once we see how we run and are more regular, we will
put or real Cleveland back in with the exact exhaust you have recimmended.
So, when the Clevor is removed, the better exhaust goes in with the better
Cleveland.
I have to say, for now it bugs the crap out of me that we are so choked
down and quiet...but we are being patient.
On Fri, Oct 8, 2021, 15:58 Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com> wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Stock Pantera headers are absolute garbage. Both from a design
> perspective, and in terms of quality. If you try to keep a set going it
> will turn into grandfather’s axe where it is nothing but a collection of
> repair welds with no original header left! It’s silly to pay a penny for
> stock headers—they are used as wall art “Pantlers” in these parts,
> decorating either side of old cattle skulls. I’m sure if you were desperate
> to keep using them somebody here would give you a set for free just to be
> rid of them!
>
> Hall Pantera used to sell excellent aftermarket so-called “big bore”
> replacements for the stock headers which mate up perfectly to stock (very
> restrictive) tailpipes. They lost their supplier but I know Larry Stock has
> about a thousand used ones cluttering up his shop. I’ve brokered several
> private sales for $75-100 for a set but I would imagine his retail would be
> higher. Still, that’s the best solution if you are committed to keeping the
> stock junk mufflers.
>
> Since you are racing a car that is nominally confirming to Gr3
> specification, you should be using the factory Gr3 exhaust system, or as
> close as you can get. Hall sells a complete system consisting of Gr3
> headers and less-restrictive GTS/GT5 mufflers. The actual Gr3 mufflers
> looked just like them but were completely gutted (empty cans). They won’t
> have those however.
>
> I just looked and it appears Hall doesn’t have the GTS headers anymore. No
> matter as the Mind Train headers PIM sells are markedly superior, and the
> GTS tailpipes will bolt right up. Tech inspectors won’t be able to tell the
> difference between factory GTS and Mind Train, but performance will be
> increased enough to make it worthwhile.
>
> So, Mind Train headers and GTS mufflers are your best way forward,
> although that’s a $2000-plus deal when all is said and done.
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Oct 9, 2021, at 03:40, Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com> wrote:
> >
> > All, we are heading to Daytona in two weeks, and the
> > stockA headersA that we have (stamped) have been welded on enough that
> > they are cracking easily.A I figure a lot of you have replaced the
> > early stamped headers with better ones and may have some near new ones
> > hanging around your shop.A A
> > I found these on
> > ebay:A A [1]
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/DeTomaso-Pantera-factory-headers-P
> > -up-PanteraMiami-or-we-ship-/233960553731
> > Do you any of you have something better and available for express
> > shipping now?A If not, I will go with the ones from ebay.A
> > We are looking for a spare set to take to Daytona, so they need to
> > arrive ASAP.A A
> > Also, I now have pictures of the clutch blowup from Portland - - will
> > be posting them to my "rebuild" folder share and update you with a
> > link.A A
> > Thanks!
> > Regards,A
> > Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
> > The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
> > Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
> > Direct: 480-442-0297
> > [2]www.PatentIt.com
> > Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
> > |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
> >
> > Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A |A F: 312.896.5633A |A A: 55 E.
> > Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
> > This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
> > confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
> > error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
> > you.
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/DeTomaso-Pantera-factory-headers-P-up-PanteraMiami-or-we-ship-/233960553731
> > 2. http://www.patentit.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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> use the links above.
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> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
Mike,A
Thanks for all that information.A We have exactly that setup with
fully gutted GTS mufflers for our Cleveland engine.A A
The Clevor engine with the Windsor block will not fit that setup.A
And, for these early races we are showing up with the stock headers and
custom baffled stock mufflers per the pre-73 FIA rules.A The better
setup that found its way to most GR3 cars was not approved to '74.A A
So, as odd as it sou D's (pub intended). So far both HSR and SOVREN did
not notice a 500 HP Clevor engine, but did notice the stock exhaust
headers and quiet (custom baffled) stick mufflers.A For Daytona, we
have been classes in HSR Race Group 3 ('72 and earlier FIA cars), not
the faster Group 6 for '73 and later FIA, Production and Trans Am cars.
We can absolutely feel the losses from the crap stock early exhaust,
and yes the headers are junk and need constant welding.A But, with 500
HP and 500 ft lbs of Clevor torque, weA already need to soft pedal a
bit until the car is well established in the very early pre-73
category.A So, we are walking a thin line.A Once we see how we run
and are more regular, we will put or real Cleveland back in with the
exact exhaust you have recimmended.
So, when the Clevor is removed, the better exhaust goes in with the
better Cleveland.
I have to say, for now it bugs the crap out of me that we are so choked
down and quiet...but we are being patient.
On Fri, Oct 8, 2021, 15:58 Mike Drew <[1]mikeldrew at aol.com> wrote:
Steve,
Stock Pantera headers are absolute garbage. Both from a design
perspective, and in terms of quality. If you try to keep a set going
it will turn into grandfatheras axe where it is nothing but a
collection of repair welds with no original header left! Itas silly
to pay a penny for stock headersathey are used as wall art
aPantlersa in these parts, decorating either side of old cattle
skulls. Iam sure if you were desperate to keep using them somebody
here would give you a set for free just to be rid of them!
Hall Pantera used to sell excellent aftermarket so-called abig borea
replacements for the stock headers which mate up perfectly to stock
(very restrictive) tailpipes. They lost their supplier but I know
Larry Stock has about a thousand used ones cluttering up his shop.
Iave brokered several private sales for $75-100 for a set but I
would imagine his retail would be higher. Still, thatas the best
solution if you are committed to keeping the stock junk mufflers.
Since you are racing a car that is nominally confirming to Gr3
specification, you should be using the factory Gr3 exhaust system,
or as close as you can get. Hall sells a complete system consisting
of Gr3 headers and less-restrictive GTS/GT5 mufflers. The actual Gr3
mufflers looked just like them but were completely gutted (empty
cans). They wonat have those however.
I just looked and it appears Hall doesnat have the GTS headers
anymore. No matter as the Mind Train headers PIM sells are markedly
superior, and the GTS tailpipes will bolt right up. Tech inspectors
wonat be able to tell the difference between factory GTS and Mind
Train, but performance will be increased enough to make it
worthwhile.
So, Mind Train headers and GTS mufflers are your best way forward,
although thatas a $2000-plus deal when all is said and done.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 9, 2021, at 03:40, Steve Lisa <[2]stevelisa at patentit.com>
wrote:
>
> i>>?A A All, we are heading to Daytona in two weeks, and the
>A A stockA headersA that we have (stamped) have been welded on
enough that
>A A they are cracking easily.AA I figure a lot of you have
replaced the
>A A early stamped headers with better ones and may have some near
new ones
>A A hanging around your shop.A A
>A A I found these on
>A A ebay:A A
[1][3]https://www.ebay.com/itm/DeTomaso-Pantera-factory-headers-P
>A A -up-PanteraMiami-or-we-ship-/233960553731
>A A Do you any of you have something better and available for
express
>A A shipping now?AA If not, I will go with the ones from ebay.A
>A A We are looking for a spare set to take to Daytona, so they
need to
>A A arrive ASAP.A A
>A A Also, I now have pictures of the clutch blowup from Portland -
- will
>A A be posting them to my "rebuild" folder share and update you
with a
>A A link.A A
>A A Thanks!
>A A Regards,A
>A A Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
>A A The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
>A A Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
>A A Direct: 480-442-0297
>A A [2][4]www.PatentIt.com
>A A Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656AA |A A F:A
480.535.6628A
>A A |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ
85260
>
>A A Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357AA |AA F: 312.896.5633AA
|AA A: 55 E.
>A A Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
>A A This email is intended only for the recipient above and may
contain
>A A confidential and privileged information. If you received this
email in
>A A error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to
me. Thank
>A A you.
>
> References
>
>A A 1.
[5]https://www.ebay.com/itm/DeTomaso-Pantera-factory-headers-P-up-Pa
nteraMiami-or-we-ship-/233960553731
>A A 2. [6]http://www.patentit.com/
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
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>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
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> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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References
1. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
2. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
3. https://www.ebay.com/itm/DeTomaso-Pantera-factory-headers-P
4. http://www.PatentIt.com/
5. https://www.ebay.com/itm/DeTomaso-Pantera-factory-headers-P-up-PanteraMiami-or-we-ship-/233960553731
6. http://www.patentit.com/
7. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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