[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 201, Issue 12
Patrick HALS
patrickhals at gmail.com
Sat Mar 13 12:38:57 EST 2021
Thank you all for your responsivity.
Not familiar with the Forum, I am always amazed to see how quickly an
answer can be found with the DT members .
When I tell other brands' fans, they hardly believe me .
I have taken a picture on an ex Candy engine , which is a 4 bolts
Cleveland, and it seems possible to remove the crank and only ONE piston
with its rod ( see pic )
Now two questions : is it the same configuration on a Boss engine and
second : how do you put it back in ? Won't it damage the rings and do you
have to change the rings? The engine has dyno timer only
The engine is out of the car, but the new non DT original gearbox (
delivered with its clutch and its flywheel ) needs to be adapted and
balanced , and the " old" flywheel that was coming with my engine has
disappeared in time. The engine only has dyno time.
If I want the engine to run well, I need to balance the damper, the crank,
at least one piston and its rod, the flywheel and the clutch.
I would like to avoid fully dismantling the engine ( time, cost, and I need
to find someone in the EU who can perform the job well, which is costly,
difficult to find, and will take a much longer time than just opening the
engine from the bottom )
I know it sounds a bit crazy, but I have planned to race in Dijon early
May, in the Classic French endurance championship
Thank you again.
See the pic to get a better understanding of the possibilities.
Thank you
Pat
Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
Patrick Hals
+32.476.567.898
This email is intended only for the recipient above, and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error, please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank you.
Le sam. 13 mars 2021 à 18:00, <detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com> a
écrit :
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> Daily Detomaso List DigestToday's Topics:
>
> 1. Boss 301 dismantling questions (Patrick HALS)
> 2. Re: Boss 301 dismantling questions (Larry Stock)
> 3. Re: Boss 301 dismantling questions (Mike Drew)
> 4. Re: Boss 301 dismantling questions (Larry Stock)
> 5. Re: Boss 301 dismantling questions (Forest Goodhart)
> 6. Re: Boss 301 dismantling questions (Julian Kift)
> 7. Re: Boss 301 dismantling questions (Mike Drew)
> 8. Re: Boss 301 dismantling questions (Thomas T?rnblom)
> 9. Fairly original '74 #6320 on BaT (Mike & Elizabeth)
> 10. Re: Fairly original '74 #6320 on BaT (Christopher Kimball)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com>
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2021 20:27:35 +0100
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
> Hi all,A
> Is thereA a way on a Ford Boss engine ( Dart aluminum block ) , to
> remove the crankshaftA and one piston with its rod, without taking the
> engine completely apart ?A
> We are thinking of removing those parts from the bottom of the engine (
> the engine being out, of course ) but we wonder if we can take one
> piston and rod out too at the same time ( for balancing purpose )A
> Thank youA
> Pat
> Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
> To: Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com>, <
> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2021 14:43:27 -0800
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
> YES you can, it's just a little awkward, but it was a Ford fix in 1972 for
> the hydraulic Freeze ups they were experiencing when the rain water ran
> down the center of the air cleaner into the two open cylinders before the
> TSB for the metal shield over the open engine screen came out.
>
> The instructions were to remove the parking brake welded bracket, drop the
> oil pan 1/2 way, rotate the crankshaft counter weights out of the way to
> finish removing the pan, undo the rod caps and remove the rod and piston
> assembly by rotating the crankshaft and replace doing the same. Then
> reverse all above procedures and re-weld the parking brake bracket, or buy
> a removable Parking Brake bracket and cross brace support from Pantera
> Parts Connection.
> Larry Stock
>
> On 3/12/21, 11:27 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Patrick HALS" <
> detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> patrickhals at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,A
> Is thereA a way on a Ford Boss engine ( Dart aluminum block ) , to
> remove the crankshaftA and one piston with its rod, without taking
> the
> engine completely apart ?A
> We are thinking of removing those parts from the bottom of the
> engine (
> the engine being out, of course ) but we wonder if we can take one
> piston and rod out too at the same time ( for balancing purpose )A
> Thank youA
> Pat
> Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>
> To: Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2021 14:48:36 -0800
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
> Patrick,
>
> You can’t balance one rod and piston. They don’t all weight the same as
> one another, despite how much manufacturers wish they would. You need to
> balance all eight plus the crank assembly....
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 12, 2021, at 11:28, Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,A
> > Is thereA a way on a Ford Boss engine ( Dart aluminum block ) , to
> > remove the crankshaftA and one piston with its rod, without taking the
> > engine completely apart ?A
> > We are thinking of removing those parts from the bottom of the engine (
> > the engine being out, of course ) but we wonder if we can take one
> > piston and rod out too at the same time ( for balancing purpose )A
> > Thank youA
> > Pat
> > Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
> To: Pantera Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>, Patrick HALS <
> patrickhals at gmail.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2021 15:26:54 -0800
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
> You balance the new assembly to the same as the one that you remove.
> Larry
>
> On 3/12/21, 2:48 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso" <
> detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
> Patrick,
>
> You can’t balance one rod and piston. They don’t all weight the same
> as one another, despite how much manufacturers wish they would. You need to
> balance all eight plus the crank assembly....
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 12, 2021, at 11:28, Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,A
> > Is thereA a way on a Ford Boss engine ( Dart aluminum block ) , to
> > remove the crankshaftA and one piston with its rod, without taking
> the
> > engine completely apart ?A
> > We are thinking of removing those parts from the bottom of the
> engine (
> > the engine being out, of course ) but we wonder if we can take one
> > piston and rod out too at the same time ( for balancing purpose )A
> > Thank youA
> > Pat
> > Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
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> approve the archiving of list messages.
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> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net>
> To: Pantera Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>, Patrick HALS <
> patrickhals at gmail.com>, Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2021 00:29:49 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
> I note that he wants to remove the crankshaft also. To do this the
> transmission needs to be removed and the timing chain has to be
> removed, all while working within the confines of the car. Then there
> is trying to reinstall the piston into the bottom of the bore which
> isn't square without breaking a ring. By the time you do all of this
> you could pull the engine and remove one head to do it the right way.
> Forest
>
> On Friday, March 12, 2021, 03:27:09 PM PST, Larry Stock
> <larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
> You balance the new assembly to the same as the one that you remove.
> Larry
> i>>?On 3/12/21, 2:48 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso"
> <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> [2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> Patrick,
> You canat balance one rod and piston. They donat all weight the
> same as one another, despite how much manufacturers wish they would.
> You need to balance all eight plus the crank assembly....
> Mike
> Sent from my iPad
> > On Mar 12, 2021, at 11:28, Patrick HALS
> <[3]patrickhals at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > i>>? Hi all,A
> > Is thereA a way on a Ford Boss engine ( Dart aluminum block ) ,
> to
> > remove the crankshaftA and one piston with its rod, without
> taking the
> > engine completely apart ?A
> > We are thinking of removing those parts from the bottom of the
> engine (
> > the engine being out, of course ) but we wonder if we can take
> one
> > piston and rod out too at the same time ( for balancing purpose
> )A
> > Thank youA
> > Pat
> > Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [4]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > [5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
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> of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
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> References
>
> 1. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 3. mailto:patrickhals at gmail.com
> 4. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 6. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 8. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 9. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> To: Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net>, Pantera Mike Drew <
> mikeldrew at aol.com>, Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com>, Larry Stock <
> larrys at panteraparts.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2021 00:56:28 +0000
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
> All good information, but Patrick does say in parentheses "(the engine
> being out of course)", but doesn't elaborate on the reason for the need
> to remove a single piston and rod.
>
> As Larry stated it may be possible to mass balance one piston and rod
> to that one removed and presumably being replaced, but the reason to
> replace one would likely be because it is damaged or failed, thus
> likely not a good candidate to mass match or perhaps it failed because
> it was out of balance!
>
> The term balancing can be taken in different context by different
> individuals, to some it is simply matching masses of the components (by
> manipulation of individual masses or selecting from a large number to
> get the most common set), to others it can be dynamically balancing on
> a purpose-built rig as it rotates. For a highly stressed race engine
> it's worth the cost to have the full rotating assembly professionally
> balanced.
>
> As to the question of degree of disassembly; one should be able to
> leave the heads intact and work from the bottom of an engine on a
> stand, although that then precludes being able to check deck clearances
> on reassembly, but should not be a concern if replacing like for like
> components.
>
> Julian
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
> Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net>
> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2021 4:29 PM
> To: Pantera Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>; Patrick HALS
> <patrickhals at gmail.com>; Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
>
> I note that he wants to remove the crankshaft also. To do this the
> transmission needs to be removed and the timing chain has to be
> removed, all while working within the confines of the car. Then there
> is trying to reinstall the piston into the bottom of the bore which
> isn't square without breaking a ring. By the time you do all of this
> you could pull the engine and remove one head to do it the right way.
> Forest
> On Friday, March 12, 2021, 03:27:09 PM PST, Larry Stock
> <larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 12, 2021, at 11:28, Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,A
> > Is thereA a way on a Ford Boss engine ( Dart aluminum block ) ,
> to
> > remove the crankshaftA and one piston with its rod, without
> taking the
> > engine completely apart ?A
> > We are thinking of removing those parts from the bottom of the
> engine (
> > the engine being out, of course ) but we wonder if we can take
> one
> > piston and rod out too at the same time ( for balancing purpose
> )A
> > Thank youA
> > Pat
> > Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > [1]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
> of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
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> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>
> To: Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com, Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com>
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2021 17:40:32 -0800
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
> Guys,
>
> Read the original email. The engine is on an engine stand....
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 12, 2021, at 16:30, Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net> wrote:
> >
> > I note that he wants to remove the crankshaft also. To do this the
> > transmission needs to be removed and the timing chain has to be
> > removed, all while working within the confines of the car. Then there
> > is trying to reinstall the piston into the bottom of the bore which
> > isn't square without breaking a ring. By the time you do all of this
> > you could pull the engine and remove one head to do it the right way.
> > Forest
> >
> > On Friday, March 12, 2021, 03:27:09 PM PST, Larry Stock
> > <larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
> > You balance the new assembly to the same as the one that you remove.
> > Larry
> > i>>?On 3/12/21, 2:48 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso"
> > <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> > [2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> > Patrick,
> > You canat balance one rod and piston. They donat all weight the
> > same as one another, despite how much manufacturers wish they would.
> > You need to balance all eight plus the crank assembly....
> > Mike
> > Sent from my iPad
> >>> On Mar 12, 2021, at 11:28, Patrick HALS
> >> <[3]patrickhals at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> i>>? Hi all,A
> >> Is thereA a way on a Ford Boss engine ( Dart aluminum block ) ,
> > to
> >> remove the crankshaftA and one piston with its rod, without
> > taking the
> >> engine completely apart ?A
> >> We are thinking of removing those parts from the bottom of the
> > engine (
> >> the engine being out, of course ) but we wonder if we can take
> > one
> >> piston and rod out too at the same time ( for balancing purpose
> > )A
> >> Thank youA
> >> Pat
> >> Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> [4]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> [5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> > etc.) use the links above.
> >>
> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> > forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
> > of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> > archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [6]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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> > 1. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> > 2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 3. mailto:patrickhals at gmail.com
> > 4. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 6. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 8. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 9. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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> > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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> use the links above.
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> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
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>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Thomas Törnblom" <thomas at hax.se>
> To: Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com, Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com>,
> Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2021 08:03:06 +0100
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
> And it is physically impossible to take a piston out downwards. The space
> between the main journals is less than the diameter of the piston.
>
> Pulling the engine is not a hard job.
>
> Cheers,
> Thomas
>
> > 13 mars 2021 kl. 02:40 skrev Mike Drew via DeTomaso <
> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>:
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > Read the original email. The engine is on an engine stand....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On Mar 12, 2021, at 16:30, Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> I note that he wants to remove the crankshaft also. To do this the
> >> transmission needs to be removed and the timing chain has to be
> >> removed, all while working within the confines of the car. Then there
> >> is trying to reinstall the piston into the bottom of the bore which
> >> isn't square without breaking a ring. By the time you do all of this
> >> you could pull the engine and remove one head to do it the right way.
> >> Forest
> >>
> >> On Friday, March 12, 2021, 03:27:09 PM PST, Larry Stock
> >> <larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
> >> You balance the new assembly to the same as the one that you remove.
> >> Larry
> >> i>>?On 3/12/21, 2:48 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso"
> >> <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> >> [2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> >> Patrick,
> >> You canat balance one rod and piston. They donat all weight the
> >> same as one another, despite how much manufacturers wish they would.
> >> You need to balance all eight plus the crank assembly....
> >> Mike
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>>> On Mar 12, 2021, at 11:28, Patrick HALS
> >>> <[3]patrickhals at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> i>>? Hi all,A
> >>> Is thereA a way on a Ford Boss engine ( Dart aluminum block ) ,
> >> to
> >>> remove the crankshaftA and one piston with its rod, without
> >> taking the
> >>> engine completely apart ?A
> >>> We are thinking of removing those parts from the bottom of the
> >> engine (
> >>> the engine being out, of course ) but we wonder if we can take
> >> one
> >>> piston and rod out too at the same time ( for balancing purpose
> >> )A
> >>> Thank youA
> >>> Pat
> >>> Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >>> DeTomaso mailing list
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> >>> [5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>>
> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> >> etc.) use the links above.
> >>>
> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
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> >> of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> >> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> References
> >>
> >> 1. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> >> 2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> 3. mailto:patrickhals at gmail.com
> >> 4. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> 5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >> 6. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >> 8. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> 9. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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-------------- next part --------------
Thank you all for your responsivity.A
Not familiar with the Forum, I am always amazed to see how quickly an
answer can be found with the DT members .A
When I tell other brands' fans, they hardly believe me .A
I have taken a picture on an ex Candy engine , which is a 4 bolts
Cleveland, and it seems possible to remove the crank and only ONE
piston with its rod ( see pic )A
Now two questions : is it the same configuration on a Boss engine and
second : how do you put it back in ? Won't it damage the rings andA do
you have to change the rings?A The engine has dyno timer only
The engine is out of the car, but the new non DT original gearbox (
delivered with its clutch and its flywheel ) needs to be adapted and
balanced , and the " old" flywheel that was coming with my engine has
disappeared in time. The engine only has dyno time.A
If I want the engine to run well, I need to balance the damper, the
crank, at least one pistonA and itsA rod, the flywheel and the
clutch.A
I would like to avoid fully dismantling the engine ( time, cost, and I
need to find someone in the EU who can perform the job well, which is
costly, difficult to find, and will take a much longer time than just
opening the engine from the bottom )A
I know it sounds a bit crazy, but I have planned to raceA in Dijon
early May, in the Classic French endurance championship
Thank you again.A
See the pic to get a better understanding of the possibilities.A
Thank youA
Pat
Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
Patrick Hals
+32.476.567.898
This email is intended only for the recipient above, and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error, please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
you.
LeA sam. 13 mars 2021 A A 18:00,
<[1]detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com> a A(c)critA :
Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
A A A A [2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
A A A A
[3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
Daily Detomaso List DigestToday's Topics:
A A 1. Boss 301 dismantling questions (Patrick HALS)
A A 2. Re: Boss 301 dismantling questions (Larry Stock)
A A 3. Re: Boss 301 dismantling questions (Mike Drew)
A A 4. Re: Boss 301 dismantling questions (Larry Stock)
A A 5. Re: Boss 301 dismantling questions (Forest Goodhart)
A A 6. Re: Boss 301 dismantling questions (Julian Kift)
A A 7. Re: Boss 301 dismantling questions (Mike Drew)
A A 8. Re: Boss 301 dismantling questions (Thomas T?rnblom)
A A 9. Fairly original '74 #6320 on BaT (Mike & Elizabeth)
A 10. Re: Fairly original '74 #6320 on BaT (Christopher Kimball)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:A Patrick HALS <[6]patrickhals at gmail.com>
To:A [7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Cc:A
Bcc:A
Date:A Fri, 12 Mar 2021 20:27:35 +0100
Subject:A [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
A A Hi all,A
A A Is thereA a way on a Ford Boss engine ( Dart aluminum block ) ,
to
A A remove the crankshaftA and one piston with its rod, without
taking the
A A engine completely apart ?A
A A We are thinking of removing those parts from the bottom of the
engine (
A A the engine being out, of course ) but we wonder if we can take
one
A A piston and rod out too at the same time ( for balancing purpose
)A
A A Thank youA
A A Pat
A A Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:A Larry Stock <[8]larrys at panteraparts.com>
To:A Patrick HALS <[9]patrickhals at gmail.com>,
<[10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Cc:A
Bcc:A
Date:A Fri, 12 Mar 2021 14:43:27 -0800
Subject:A Re: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
YES you can, it's just a little awkward, but it was a Ford fix in
1972 for the hydraulic Freeze ups they were experiencing when the
rain water ran down the center of the air cleaner into the two open
cylinders before the TSB for the metal shield over the open engine
screen came out.
The instructions were to remove the parking brake welded bracket,
drop the oil pan 1/2 way, rotate the crankshaft counter weights out
of the way to finish removing the pan, undo the rod caps and remove
the rod and piston assembly by rotating the crankshaft and replace
doing the same. Then reverse all above procedures and re-weld the
parking brake bracket, or buy a removable Parking Brake bracket and
cross brace support from Pantera Parts Connection.
Larry Stock
i>>?On 3/12/21, 11:27 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Patrick HALS"
<[11]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
[12]patrickhals at gmail.com> wrote:
A A A A Hi all,A
A A A A Is thereA a way on a Ford Boss engine ( Dart aluminum
block ) , to
A A A A remove the crankshaftA and one piston with its rod,
without taking the
A A A A engine completely apart ?A
A A A A We are thinking of removing those parts from the bottom
of the engine (
A A A A the engine being out, of course ) but we wonder if we can
take one
A A A A piston and rod out too at the same time ( for balancing
purpose )A
A A A A Thank youA
A A A A Pat
A A A A Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
A A _______________________________________________
A A Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
A A DeTomaso mailing list
A A [13]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
A A Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future
members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:A Mike Drew <[15]mikeldrew at aol.com>
To:A Patrick HALS <[16]patrickhals at gmail.com>
Cc:A [17]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Bcc:A
Date:A Fri, 12 Mar 2021 14:48:36 -0800
Subject:A Re: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
Patrick,
You canat balance one rod and piston. They donat all weight the same
as one another, despite how much manufacturers wish they would. You
need to balance all eight plus the crank assembly....
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 12, 2021, at 11:28, Patrick HALS
<[18]patrickhals at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> i>>?A A Hi all,A
>A A Is thereA a way on a Ford Boss engine ( Dart aluminum block )
, to
>A A remove the crankshaftA and one piston with its rod, without
taking the
>A A engine completely apart ?A
>A A We are thinking of removing those parts from the bottom of the
engine (
>A A the engine being out, of course ) but we wonder if we can take
one
>A A piston and rod out too at the same time ( for balancing
purpose )A
>A A Thank youA
>A A Pat
>A A Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [19]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:A Larry Stock <[21]larrys at panteraparts.com>
To:A Pantera Mike Drew <[22]mikeldrew at aol.com>, Patrick HALS
<[23]patrickhals at gmail.com>
Cc:A [24]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Bcc:A
Date:A Fri, 12 Mar 2021 15:26:54 -0800
Subject:A Re: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
You balance the new assembly to the same as the one that you remove.
Larry
i>>?On 3/12/21, 2:48 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via
DeTomaso" <[25]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
[26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
A A Patrick,
A A You canat balance one rod and piston. They donat all weight
the same as one another, despite how much manufacturers wish they
would. You need to balance all eight plus the crank assembly....
A A Mike
A A Sent from my iPad
A A > On Mar 12, 2021, at 11:28, Patrick HALS
<[27]patrickhals at gmail.com> wrote:
A A >
A A > i>>?A A Hi all,A
A A >A A Is thereA a way on a Ford Boss engine ( Dart aluminum
block ) , to
A A >A A remove the crankshaftA and one piston with its rod,
without taking the
A A >A A engine completely apart ?A
A A >A A We are thinking of removing those parts from the bottom
of the engine (
A A >A A the engine being out, of course ) but we wonder if we
can take one
A A >A A piston and rod out too at the same time ( for balancing
purpose )A
A A >A A Thank youA
A A >A A Pat
A A >A A Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
A A > _______________________________________________
A A >
A A >
A A > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
A A > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
A A > DeTomaso mailing list
A A > [28]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A > [29]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
A A >
A A > To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
A A >
A A > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future
members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
A A _______________________________________________
A A Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
A A DeTomaso mailing list
A A [30]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A [31]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
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A A Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future
members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:A Forest Goodhart <[32]forestg at att.net>
To:A Pantera Mike Drew <[33]mikeldrew at aol.com>, Patrick HALS
<[34]patrickhals at gmail.com>, Larry Stock
<[35]larrys at panteraparts.com>
Cc:A "[36]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<[37]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Bcc:A
Date:A Sat, 13 Mar 2021 00:29:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject:A Re: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
A A I note that he wants to remove the crankshaft also. To do this
the
A A transmission needs to be removed and the timing chain has to be
A A removed, all while working within the confines of the car. Then
there
A A is trying to reinstall the piston into the bottom of the bore
which
A A isn't square without breaking a ring. By the time you do all of
this
A A you could pull the engine and remove one head to do it the
right way.
A A Forest
A A On Friday, March 12, 2021, 03:27:09 PM PST, Larry Stock
A A <[38]larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
A A You balance the new assembly to the same as the one that you
remove.
A A Larry
A A i>>?On 3/12/21, 2:48 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via
DeTomaso"
A A <[1][39]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
A A [2][40]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
A A A A Patrick,
A A A A You canat balance one rod and piston. They donat all
weight the
A A same as one another, despite how much manufacturers wish they
would.
A A You need to balance all eight plus the crank assembly....
A A A A Mike
A A A A Sent from my iPad
A A A A > On Mar 12, 2021, at 11:28, Patrick HALS
A A <[3][41]patrickhals at gmail.com> wrote:
A A A A >
A A A A > i>>?A Hi all,A
A A A A >A Is thereA a way on a Ford Boss engine ( Dart aluminum
block ) ,
A A to
A A A A >A remove the crankshaftA and one piston with its rod,
without
A A taking the
A A A A >A engine completely apart ?A
A A A A >A We are thinking of removing those parts from the
bottom of the
A A engine (
A A A A >A the engine being out, of course ) but we wonder if we
can take
A A one
A A A A >A piston and rod out too at the same time ( for
balancing purpose
A A )A
A A A A >A Thank youA
A A A A >A Pat
A A A A >A Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
A A A A > _______________________________________________
A A A A >
A A A A >
A A A A > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
A A A A > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
A A A A > DeTomaso mailing list
A A A A > [4][42]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A A A >
[5][43]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
A A A A >
A A A A > To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
A A etc.) use the links above.
A A A A >
A A A A > Members who post to this list grant license to the list
to
A A forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future
members
A A of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
maintain an
A A archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
A A A A _______________________________________________
A A A A Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
A A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
A A A A DeTomaso mailing list
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A [7][45]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
A A A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
A A etc.) use the links above.
A A A A Members who post to this list grant license to the list
to forward
A A any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
of the
A A list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
A A or approve the archiving of list messages.
A A _______________________________________________
A A Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
A A DeTomaso mailing list
A A [8][46]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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A A To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
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A A Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
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A A message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
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A A list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
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A A or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
A A 1. mailto:[48]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
A A 2. mailto:[49]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A 3. mailto:[50]patrickhals at gmail.com
A A 4. mailto:[51]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A 5. [52]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
A A 6. mailto:[53]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A 7. [54]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
A A 8. mailto:[55]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A 9. [56]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:A Julian Kift <[57]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
To:A Forest Goodhart <[58]forestg at att.net>, Pantera Mike Drew
<[59]mikeldrew at aol.com>, Patrick HALS <[60]patrickhals at gmail.com>,
Larry Stock <[61]larrys at panteraparts.com>
Cc:A "[62]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<[63]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Bcc:A
Date:A Sat, 13 Mar 2021 00:56:28 +0000
Subject:A Re: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
A A All good information, but Patrick does say in parentheses "(the
engine
A A being out of course)", but doesn't elaborate on the reason for
the need
A A to remove a single piston and rod.
A A As Larry stated it may be possible to mass balance one piston
and rod
A A to that one removed and presumably being replaced, but the
reason to
A A replace one would likely be because it is damaged or failed,
thus
A A likely not a good candidate to mass match or perhaps it failed
because
A A it was out of balance!
A A The term balancing can be taken in different context by
different
A A individuals, to some it is simply matching masses of the
components (by
A A manipulation of individual masses or selecting from a large
number to
A A get the most common set), to others it can be dynamically
balancing on
A A a purpose-built rig as it rotates. For a highly stressed race
engine
A A it's worth the cost to have the full rotating assembly
professionally
A A balanced.
A A As to the question of degree of disassembly; one should be able
to
A A leave the heads intact and work from the bottom of an engine on
a
A A stand, although that then precludes being able to check deck
clearances
A A on reassembly, but should not be a concern if replacing like
for like
A A components.
A A Julian
A A
A __________________________________________________________________
A A From: DeTomaso <[64]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
on behalf of
A A Forest Goodhart <[65]forestg at att.net>
A A Sent: Friday, March 12, 2021 4:29 PM
A A To: Pantera Mike Drew <[66]mikeldrew at aol.com>; Patrick HALS
A A <[67]patrickhals at gmail.com>; Larry Stock
<[68]larrys at panteraparts.com>
A A Cc: [69]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<[70]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
A A I note that he wants to remove the crankshaft also. To do this
the
A A transmission needs to be removed and the timing chain has to be
A A removed, all while working within the confines of the car. Then
there
A A is trying to reinstall the piston into the bottom of the bore
which
A A isn't square without breaking a ring. By the time you do all of
this
A A you could pull the engine and remove one head to do it the
right way.
A A Forest
A A A A On Friday, March 12, 2021, 03:27:09 PM PST, Larry Stock
A A <[71]larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
A A A A > On Mar 12, 2021, at 11:28, Patrick HALS
<[72]patrickhals at gmail.com>
A A wrote:
A A A A >
A A A A >A A Hi all,A
A A A A >A Is thereA a way on a Ford Boss engine ( Dart aluminum
block ) ,
A A to
A A A A >A remove the crankshaftA and one piston with its rod,
without
A A taking the
A A A A >A engine completely apart ?A
A A A A >A We are thinking of removing those parts from the
bottom of the
A A engine (
A A A A >A the engine being out, of course ) but we wonder if we
can take
A A one
A A A A >A piston and rod out too at the same time ( for
balancing purpose
A A )A
A A A A >A Thank youA
A A A A >A Pat
A A A A >A Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
A A A A > _______________________________________________
A A A A >
A A A A >
A A A A > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:A Mike Drew <[82]mikeldrew at aol.com>
To:A Forest Goodhart <[83]forestg at att.net>
Cc:A [84]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com, Patrick HALS
<[85]patrickhals at gmail.com>
Bcc:A
Date:A Fri, 12 Mar 2021 17:40:32 -0800
Subject:A Re: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
Guys,
Read the original email. The engine is on an engine stand....
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 12, 2021, at 16:30, Forest Goodhart <[86]forestg at att.net>
wrote:
>
> i>>?A A I note that he wants to remove the crankshaft also. To do
this the
>A A transmission needs to be removed and the timing chain has to
be
>A A removed, all while working within the confines of the car.
Then there
>A A is trying to reinstall the piston into the bottom of the bore
which
>A A isn't square without breaking a ring. By the time you do all
of this
>A A you could pull the engine and remove one head to do it the
right way.
>A A Forest
>
>A A On Friday, March 12, 2021, 03:27:09 PM PST, Larry Stock
>A A <[87]larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
>A A You balance the new assembly to the same as the one that you
remove.
>A A Larry
>A A i>>?On 3/12/21, 2:48 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via
DeTomaso"
>A A <[1][88]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
>A A [2][89]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>A A A A Patrick,
>A A A A You canat balance one rod and piston. They donat all
weight the
>A A same as one another, despite how much manufacturers wish they
would.
>A A You need to balance all eight plus the crank assembly....
>A A A A Mike
>A A A A Sent from my iPad
>>> On Mar 12, 2021, at 11:28, Patrick HALS
>>A A <[3][90]patrickhals at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> i>>?A Hi all,A
>> Is thereA a way on a Ford Boss engine ( Dart aluminum block ) ,
>A A to
>> remove the crankshaftA and one piston with its rod, without
>A A taking the
>> engine completely apart ?A
>> We are thinking of removing those parts from the bottom of the
>A A engine (
>> the engine being out, of course ) but we wonder if we can take
>A A one
>> piston and rod out too at the same time ( for balancing purpose
>A A )A
>> Thank youA
>> Pat
>> Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
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>A A of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
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>A A archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:A "Thomas TAP:rnblom" <[108]thomas at hax.se>
To:A Mike Drew <[109]mikeldrew at aol.com>
Cc:A [110]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com, Patrick HALS
<[111]patrickhals at gmail.com>, Forest Goodhart <[112]forestg at att.net>
Bcc:A
Date:A Sat, 13 Mar 2021 08:03:06 +0100
Subject:A Re: [DeTomaso] Boss 301 dismantling questions
And it is physically impossible to take a piston out downwards. The
space between the main journals is less than the diameter of the
piston.
Pulling the engine is not a hard job.
Cheers,
Thomas
> 13 mars 2021 kl. 02:40 skrev Mike Drew via DeTomaso
<[113]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>:
>
> i>>?Guys,
>
> Read the original email. The engine is on an engine stand....
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Mar 12, 2021, at 16:30, Forest Goodhart <[114]forestg at att.net>
wrote:
>>
>> i>>?A A I note that he wants to remove the crankshaft also. To
do this the
>>A transmission needs to be removed and the timing chain has to be
>>A removed, all while working within the confines of the car. Then
there
>>A is trying to reinstall the piston into the bottom of the bore
which
>>A isn't square without breaking a ring. By the time you do all of
this
>>A you could pull the engine and remove one head to do it the
right way.
>>A Forest
>>
>>A On Friday, March 12, 2021, 03:27:09 PM PST, Larry Stock
>>A <[115]larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
>>A You balance the new assembly to the same as the one that you
remove.
>>A Larry
>>A i>>?On 3/12/21, 2:48 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via
DeTomaso"
>>A <[1][116]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
>>A [2][117]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>A A A Patrick,
>>A A A You canat balance one rod and piston. They donat all
weight the
>>A same as one another, despite how much manufacturers wish they
would.
>>A You need to balance all eight plus the crank assembly....
>>A A A Mike
>>A A A Sent from my iPad
>>>> On Mar 12, 2021, at 11:28, Patrick HALS
>>>A <[3][118]patrickhals at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> i>>?A Hi all,A
>>> Is thereA a way on a Ford Boss engine ( Dart aluminum block ) ,
>>A to
>>> remove the crankshaftA and one piston with its rod, without
>>A taking the
>>> engine completely apart ?A
>>> We are thinking of removing those parts from the bottom of the
>>A engine (
>>> the engine being out, of course ) but we wonder if we can take
>>A one
>>> piston and rod out too at the same time ( for balancing purpose
>>A )A
>>> Thank youA
>>> Pat
>>> Candy 2862 - ADA 9628
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> [4][119]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> [5][120]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
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>>>
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