[DeTomaso] Gr4 Pantera at Le Mans video / aerodynamics at high speed
Rich Hoppe
richbhoppe at gmail.com
Wed Feb 3 17:38:25 EST 2021
Larry
I ran the pizza car with a front spoiler or splitter 165 mph at silverstate
for the last 20 miles straight without a problem.
I think I hit that speed again at the texas world speedway on the main
straight.
The car is pretty stable at that point, but I would like to buy a nascar
rear blade if someone has one.
I really dont want to find the aero limit by trial and error.
At Apex motor club track that I run on they put a chicane on the long
straight that holds my speed to maybe 140-150.
They may have a day where they take the chicane out and let you go down a
3800 ft straight.
I think I could hit at least 180mph.
When I run it out in forth gear it hits about 167mph at peak HP 8000 rpms.
Then there is 5th which has been changed to the taller gear in the
transaxle.
I have never shifted to 5th and let it climb yet the road is always too
short.
So I am not sure when I really need the blade but the situation will happen
sometime.
Rich
On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 3:15 PM Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
> At speeds beginning at 120 the US DOT raised ride height Pantera's front
> end will start to float. If you lower the Pantera to Dallara's originally
> designed ride height with the A-Arm's flat and parallel with the road
> surface, and with a short and well clearanced GTS fiberglass or a short
> blade type front spoiler, we can get to 155 MPH when it's all you can do is
> hold on to it in two lanes of traffic as I experienced at the Silver State.
> With a group 4 or group 5 front spoiler you are good up to about 180 MPH
> when the roof and deck lid design will begin to lift the roof and unload
> the rear of the Pantera so you need a rear spoiler and diffuser to break up
> the rear lift to hold it down. A wing will do the same, but you probably
> won't have the HP to be able to get there with most wings, and it then it
> will become rear heavy and unbalanced. So if you were to get air under the
> front end where you end up like Junior Wilson and/or the Audi Prototype car
> at Le Mans 10 years ago, going a spectacular 70 feet in the air going end
> over end until final impact. A simple Nascar type blade spoiler to break
> the lift without adding much drag is about all you need. Mike Cook told me
> with the aluminum front hood skin, that at about 185 MPH, it was pushed
> (crushed inward) in from the frontal air pressure just above where the
> vented hood vents would have been. So at speed, the typical radiator front
> hood vents would probably be putting more air under the Pantera aero
> design, further destabilizing it. Now let all that data settle in.
> Larry Stock
>
> On 2/3/21, 1:20 PM, "detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf
> of dan at excaliburre.com" <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on
> behalf of dan at excaliburre.com> wrote:
>
> Regarding the aerodynamics at high speed, when Cook Sr. built "The
> Beast" in '71 he used rubber thongs on the vented fiberglass front
> deck
> lid, which allows it to float at high speed.
>
> On the rear deck lid he installed a huge stainless steel wing, like
> something off a B-52.
>
> The wind didn't appear to help enough.
>
> On one infamous Silver State Challenge the rear of "The Beast" was
> lifting above 170 mph.
>
> About 1/2 way through my run "The Beast" stabilized and started
> holding
> the road again.
>
> After arriving at the finish line someone asked me what happened to
> my
> rear deck lid (now fiberglass and without the B-52 wing) and I
> realized
> it was gone.
>
> I'm guessing it flew off at the same time the car stabilized.
>
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> Dan Courtney
>
> La Jolla, CA
>
> (858) 337-7019 cell
>
> Dan at excaliburre.com
> _______________________________________________
>
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-------------- next part --------------
Larry
I ran the pizza car with a front spoiler or splitter 165 mph at
silverstate for the last 20 miles straight without a problem.
I think I hit that speed again at the texas world speedway on the main
straight.
The car is pretty stable at that point, but I would like to buy a
nascar rear blade if someone has one.
I really dont want to find the aero limit by trial and error.
At Apex motor club track that I run on they put a chicane on the long
straight that holds my speed to maybe 140-150.
They may have a day where they take the chicane out and let you go down
a 3800 ft straight.
I think I could hit at least 180mph.A A
When I run it out in forth gear it hits about 167mph at peak HP 8000
rpms.A
Then there is 5th which has been changed to the taller gear in the
transaxle.A
I have neverA shifted to 5th and let it climb yet the road is always
too short.
So I am not sure when I really need the blade but the situation will
happen sometime.
Rich
On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 3:15 PM Larry Stock <[1]larrys at panteraparts.com>
wrote:
At speeds beginning at 120 the US DOT raised ride height Pantera's
front end will start to float. If you lower the Pantera to Dallara's
originally designed ride height with the A-Arm's flat and parallel
with the road surface, and with a short and well clearanced GTS
fiberglass or a short blade type front spoiler, we can get to 155
MPH when it's all you can do is hold on to it in two lanes of
traffic as I experienced at the Silver State. With a group 4 or
group 5 front spoiler you are good up to about 180 MPH when the roof
and deck lid design will begin to lift the roof and unload the rear
of the Pantera so you need a rear spoiler and diffuser to break up
the rear lift to hold it down. A wing will do the same, but you
probably won't have the HP to be able to get there with most wings,
and it then it will become rear heavy and unbalanced. So if you were
to get air under the front end where you end up like Junior Wilson
and/or the Audi Prototype car at Le Mans 10 years ago, going a
spectacular 70 feet in the air going end over end until final
impact. A simple Nascar type blade spoiler to break the lift without
adding much drag is about all you need. Mike Cook told me with the
aluminum front hood skin, that at about 185 MPH, it was pushed
(crushed inward) in from the frontal air pressure just above where
the vented hood vents would have been. So at speed, the typical
radiator front hood vents would probably be putting more air under
the Pantera aero design, further destabilizing it. Now let all that
data settle in.
Larry Stock
i>>?On 2/3/21, 1:20 PM, "[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
on behalf of [3]dan at excaliburre.com"
<[4]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
[5]dan at excaliburre.com> wrote:
A A A A Regarding the aerodynamics at high speed, when Cook Sr.
built "The
A A A A Beast" in '71 he used rubber thongs on the vented
fiberglass front deck
A A A A lid, which allows it to float at high speed.
A A A A On the rear deck lid he installed a huge stainless steel
wing, like
A A A A something off a B-52.
A A A A The wind didn't appear to help enough.
A A A A On one infamous Silver State Challenge the rear of "The
Beast" was
A A A A lifting above 170 mph.
A A A A About 1/2 way through my run "The Beast" stabilized and
started holding
A A A A the road again.
A A A A After arriving at the finish line someone asked me what
happened to my
A A A A rear deck lid (now fiberglass and without the B-52 wing)
and I realized
A A A A it was gone.
A A A A I'm guessing it flew off at the same time the car
stabilized.
A A A A Dan
A A A A Dan Courtney
A A A A La Jolla, CA
A A A A (858) 337-7019 cell
A A A A [6]Dan at excaliburre.com
A A _______________________________________________
A A Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
A A DeTomaso mailing list
A A [7]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A [8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
A A Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future
members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
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References
1. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
3. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
4. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
5. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
6. mailto:Dan at excaliburre.com
7. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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