[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 202, Issue 21 drop or not to drop
Scott Davis
lumpydavis at aol.com
Thu Apr 29 08:03:28 EDT 2021
I dropped my floor pans over 20 years ago and have been very pleased with the result.
1. Gives me more head room, I am 6-2 but overall height alone is not the only consideration; I have a taller sitting height. Any one who has flown aircraft with ejection seats will understand the issue. I too adjust the rake of my seat for comfort; no issue with visibility.
2. Greater selection of seats for my car.
3. Done properly it adds stiffness to the chassis. Using the right gauge of material and properly thought out installation/welding helps. Gary Hall and I extensively talked through this aspect. He proved the concept and installation on the high power, removable top “Purple Passion”. The resulting stiffening really helps with the new generation of sticky tires and bigger wheels.
Scott Davis 1972 pre-L #3577
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 28, 2021, at 9:44 PM, detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com wrote:
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> Daily Detomaso List Digest
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. To Drop or Not to Drop (Mike & Elizabeth)
> 2. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Mike Drew)
> 3. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Charles Engles)
> 4. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Will Kooiman)
> 5. Screens for the heater/AC fan motors (Mike & Elizabeth)
> 6. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Corey Price)
> 7. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Steve Lisa)
> 8. To Drop or Not to Drop (Garth Rodericks)
> 9. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (B Hower)
> 10. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (jderyke at aol.com)
> 11. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Daniel C Jones)
> 12. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Daniel C Jones)
> 13. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Daniel C Jones)
> 14. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Daniel C Jones)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 10:22:44 -0700
> From: "Mike & Elizabeth" <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
> To: <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
> Message-ID: <011601d73c53$1a005320$4e00f960$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out there.
>
>
>
> Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time by the
> same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance when he has
> a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop. Since my car is in
> bare metal right now and about to go on the rotisserie for all of the other
> metal work, I'm wondering if I should reconsider while I have the
> opportunity. Headroom for me has always been just 'adequate' and I do have
> the seat springs removed from the bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm
> basically sitting on the floor. I don't plan to track or autocross the car
> so don't need helmet clearance but it would be nice to be able to consider a
> seat upgrade sometime in the future if the C4's get old.
>
>
>
> Thoughts . . .
>
>
>
> Thanks, Mike Thomas
>
> Panteras Northwest
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out
> there.
>
>
> Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time by
> the same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
> when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.
> Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
> rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I should
> reconsider while I have the opportunity. Headroom for me has always
> been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed from the
> bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the floor. I
> don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet clearance
> but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade sometime in
> the future if the C4's get old.
>
>
> Thoughts . . .
>
>
> Thanks, Mike Thomas
>
> Panteras Northwest
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 10:41:12 -0700
> From: Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>
> To: Mike & Elizabeth <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
> Message-ID: <F11FCE8B-580C-469B-866C-920ADEBEBC30 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Mike,
>
> Dropping floorpans is a decision each has to make for himself. I will say that the later cars (GT5-S etc) come with dropped pans from the factory and personally I feel they sit too low. My own car has dropped pans because my Recaro seats are several inches taller so they cancel each other out.
>
> If you were happy before, I doubt you will be happier of you change it.
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 28, 2021, at 10:22, Mike & Elizabeth <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ? OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out
>> there.
>>
>>
>> Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time by
>> the same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
>> when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.
>> Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
>> rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I should
>> reconsider while I have the opportunity. Headroom for me has always
>> been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed from the
>> bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the floor. I
>> don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet clearance
>> but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade sometime in
>> the future if the C4's get old.
>>
>>
>> Thoughts . . .
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Mike Thomas
>>
>> Panteras Northwest
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 13:18:29 -0500
> From: "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net>
> To: "'Mike & Elizabeth'" <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>,
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
> Message-ID: <004901d73c5a$e454e0d0$acfea270$@cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear Mike,
>
> Ah, an opinion question.
>
> I am 6'4" and have just enough head room in both Panteras with
> modifications that do not include lowering the floor pan. Decades ago, I got
> to sit in a GT5. I remarked to the owner that it was so much roomier than
> standard Panteras and he pointed out the factory dropped floor pans. I was
> impressed by the improvement. I would say that it will give you more room
> and comfort. Should you ever want to take to the track, the extra room for
> the helmet is a plus. You'll have more choices of seats. Finally, there is
> no better time to do it than while the car is on the rotisserie.
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
> Of Mike & Elizabeth
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:23 PM
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
>
> OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out there.
>
>
>
> Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time by the
> same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance when he has
> a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop. Since my car is in
> bare metal right now and about to go on the rotisserie for all of the other
> metal work, I'm wondering if I should reconsider while I have the
> opportunity. Headroom for me has always been just 'adequate' and I do have
> the seat springs removed from the bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm
> basically sitting on the floor. I don't plan to track or autocross the car
> so don't need helmet clearance but it would be nice to be able to consider a
> seat upgrade sometime in the future if the C4's get old.
>
>
>
> Thoughts . . .
>
>
>
> Thanks, Mike Thomas
>
> Panteras Northwest
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 17:05:33 -0400
> From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>, 'Mike & Elizabeth'
> <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>, <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
> Message-ID: <183B5BAC-52E9-4215-B68F-BC4153EB80D6 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Drop 'em. It's an easy mod with few downsides.
>
> It gives you more options if you decide to change seats later on.
>
> If you don?t like how low they are, it's easy to raise them.
>
> You can always drop them later on, but as long as you're in bare metal, now is the time to do it.
>
> ?On 4/28/21, 2:18 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Charles Engles" <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
> Dear Mike,
>
> Ah, an opinion question.
>
> I am 6'4" and have just enough head room in both Panteras with
> modifications that do not include lowering the floor pan. Decades ago, I got
> to sit in a GT5. I remarked to the owner that it was so much roomier than
> standard Panteras and he pointed out the factory dropped floor pans. I was
> impressed by the improvement. I would say that it will give you more room
> and comfort. Should you ever want to take to the track, the extra room for
> the helmet is a plus. You'll have more choices of seats. Finally, there is
> no better time to do it than while the car is on the rotisserie.
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
> Of Mike & Elizabeth
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:23 PM
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
>
> OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out there.
>
>
>
> Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time by the
> same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance when he has
> a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop. Since my car is in
> bare metal right now and about to go on the rotisserie for all of the other
> metal work, I'm wondering if I should reconsider while I have the
> opportunity. Headroom for me has always been just 'adequate' and I do have
> the seat springs removed from the bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm
> basically sitting on the floor. I don't plan to track or autocross the car
> so don't need helmet clearance but it would be nice to be able to consider a
> seat upgrade sometime in the future if the C4's get old.
>
>
>
> Thoughts . . .
>
>
>
> Thanks, Mike Thomas
>
> Panteras Northwest
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 16:08:13 -0700
> From: "Mike & Elizabeth" <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
> To: <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Screens for the heater/AC fan motors
> Message-ID: <027401d73c83$5db36820$191a3860$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> When I took the heater/AC box from 6328 apart, there were fine-mesh metal
> screens across the apertures where air flows from the bans into the box.
> I'm replacing the fan unit with a 3-speed unit and have new screen material
> cut but when I asked a couple of others who have done the same what they
> used for the screens they replied "What screen . . . ?". Was this only done
> on later cars, or perhaps an owner mod on mine?
>
>
>
> Just curious. It makes sense from the stand point of keeping any debris
> from getting into the box and fouling the core but you'd never be able to
> clear the screens without pulling the dash, box and fan unit.
>
>
>
> Mike Thomas
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> When I took the heater/AC box from 6328 apart, there were fine-mesh
> metal screens across the apertures where air flows from the bans into
> the box. I'm replacing the fan unit with a 3-speed unit and have new
> screen material cut but when I asked a couple of others who have done
> the same what they used for the screens they replied "What screen . . .
> ?". Was this only done on later cars, or perhaps an owner mod on mine?
>
>
> Just curious. It makes sense from the stand point of keeping any
> debris from getting into the box and fouling the core but you'd never
> be able to clear the screens without pulling the dash, box and fan
> unit.
>
>
> Mike Thomas
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 17:09:50 -0600
> From: Corey Price <coreyjprice at gmail.com>
> To: Mike & Elizabeth <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
> Message-ID: <9F3741B4-F131-4DD7-9052-7E5C16245730 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Mike,
>
> I debated the same thing on my car and ultimately decided not to. There are a few ways to do it, and I was headed down the road that lead to cutting the crossmember. I talked to Dennis Quella and he talked me out of it in favor of other less intrusive ways of gaining headroom.
>
> Corey
>
>> On Apr 28, 2021, at 11:22 AM, Mike & Elizabeth <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ? OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out
>> there.
>>
>>
>> Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time by
>> the same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
>> when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.
>> Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
>> rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I should
>> reconsider while I have the opportunity. Headroom for me has always
>> been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed from the
>> bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the floor. I
>> don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet clearance
>> but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade sometime in
>> the future if the C4's get old.
>>
>>
>> Thoughts . . .
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Mike Thomas
>>
>> Panteras Northwest
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 16:24:34 -0700
> From: Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com>
> To: Corey Price <coreyjprice at gmail.com>
> Cc: List DeTomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
> Message-ID:
> <CAOzaoYpecjaUMxwGacTE5=3p5HT2Aid=n-=4L2Gp=d9no9E-3g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> We lowered ours because we need room for a helmet. We cut the floor, not
> the cross-member, dropped the back and re-welded triangular inserts on the
> sides, along with taking the opportunity to gusset some of the areas of the
> cross-members. Except for worrying about shaving our ass on a curb, we are
> happy.
>
> Regards,
>
> Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
> The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
> Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
> Direct: 480-442-0297
>
> www.PatentIt.com
>
> Scottsdale Office | P: 480.535.6656 | F: 480.535.6628 | A: 7689 East
> Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
>
> Chicago Office | P: 312.752.4357 | F: 312.896.5633 | A: 55 E. Monroe
> Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
>
> This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
> confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
> error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank you.
>
>
>
>> On Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 16:09 Corey Price <coreyjprice at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> I debated the same thing on my car and ultimately decided not to. There
>> are a few ways to do it, and I was headed down the road that lead to
>> cutting the crossmember. I talked to Dennis Quella and he talked me out of
>> it in favor of other less intrusive ways of gaining headroom.
>>
>> Corey
>>
>>> On Apr 28, 2021, at 11:22 AM, Mike & Elizabeth <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out
>>> there.
>>>
>>>
>>> Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time by
>>> the same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
>>> when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.
>>> Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
>>> rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I should
>>> reconsider while I have the opportunity. Headroom for me has always
>>> been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed from the
>>> bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the floor. I
>>> don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet clearance
>>> but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade sometime in
>>> the future if the C4's get old.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thoughts . . .
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks, Mike Thomas
>>>
>>> Panteras Northwest
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>> use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
>> the archiving of list messages.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
>> the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
>> the archiving of list messages.
> -------------- next part --------------
> We lowered ours because we need room for a helmet.A We cut the floor,
> not the cross-member, dropped the back and re-welded triangular inserts
> on the sides, along with taking the opportunity to gusset some of the
> areas of the cross-members.A Except for worrying about shaving our ass
> on a curb, we are happy.
> Regards,A
> Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
> The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
> Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
> Direct:A 480-442-0297
> [1]www.PatentIt.com
> Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
> |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
> Chicago OfficeA |A P:A 312.752.4357A |A A F:A 312.896.5633A
> |A A A:A 55 E. Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
> This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
> confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
> error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
> you.
> A A A
>
> On Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 16:09 Corey Price <[2]coreyjprice at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Mike,
> I debated the same thing on my car and ultimately decided not to.
> There are a few ways to do it, and I was headed down the road that
> lead to cutting the crossmember. I talked to Dennis Quella and he
> talked me out of it in favor of other less intrusive ways of gaining
> headroom.
> Corey
>>> On Apr 28, 2021, at 11:22 AM, Mike & Elizabeth
>> <[3]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> i>>?A A OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw
> this one out
>> A A there.
>>
>>
>> A A Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same
> time by
>> A A the same guy.A Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more
> clearance
>> A A when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a
> drop.
>> A A Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
>> A A rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I
> should
>> A A reconsider while I have the opportunity.A Headroom for me has
> always
>> A A been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed
> from the
>> A A bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the
> floor.A I
>> A A don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet
> clearance
>> A A but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade
> sometime in
>> A A the future if the C4's get old.
>>
>>
>> A A Thoughts . . .
>>
>>
>> A A Thanks, Mike Thomas
>>
>> A A Panteras Northwest
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [4]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> [5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [6]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
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> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. http://www.PatentIt.com/
> 2. mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com
> 3. mailto:mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
> 4. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 6. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 23:39:18 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
> To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>, DeTomaso Mail List
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
> Message-ID: <186210448.2354513.1619653158306 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Don't do it!??
>> From everything you've told us, you don't need to, so don't.? If and when the time comes that you need to make an adjustment for more headroom (e.g. because of a new seat), you can modify it then.? And frankly, there are less intrusive ways to get more headroom before going to dropped floor pans.
> That's my 2-cents, and it's only worth what you paid for it!? :)
>
> -------------- original message --------------
> OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out
> there.
>
>
> Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time by
> the same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
> when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.
> Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
> rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I should
> reconsider while I have the opportunity. Headroom for me has always
> been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed from the
> bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the floor. I
> don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet clearance
> but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade sometime in
> the future if the C4's get old.
>
>
> Thoughts . . .
>
>
> Thanks, Mike Thomas
>
> Panteras Northwest
> -------------- next part --------------
> Don't do it!
> From everything you've told us, you don't need to, so don't. If and
> when the time comes that you need to make an adjustment for more
> headroom (e.g. because of a new seat), you can modify it then. And
> frankly, there are less intrusive ways to get more headroom before
> going to dropped floor pans.
> That's my 2-cents, and it's only worth what you paid for it! :)
> -------------- original message --------------
> OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out
> there.
>
>
> Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time by
> the same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
> when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.
> Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
> rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I should
> reconsider while I have the opportunity. Headroom for me has always
> been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed from the
> bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the floor. I
> don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet clearance
> but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade sometime in
> the future if the C4's get old.
>
>
> Thoughts . . .
>
>
> Thanks, Mike Thomas
>
> Panteras Northwest
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 00:23:57 +0000 (UTC)
> From: B Hower <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
> To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>, 'Mike & Elizabeth'
> <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>, "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, Will Kooiman
> <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
> Message-ID: <1538862617.1335894.1619655837601 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I agree ... with comment that you can raise seats if you find them too low .... shim to desired height and know if you change seats you have the main item covered ...
> ?3400 has dropped pans and Hall seats ... I am not as tall as Dr. but am long torso. I had to remove raised vent on top of helmet for roof clearance. And the head liner is against room .. with no sag. FWIW
>
> Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )
>
> On Wednesday, April 28, 2021, 4:05:40 PM CDT, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Drop 'em.? It's an easy mod with few downsides.
>
> It gives you more options if you decide to change seats later on.
>
> If you don?t like how low they are, it's easy to raise them.
>
> You can always drop them later on, but as long as you're in bare metal, now is the time to do it.
>
> ?On 4/28/21, 2:18 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Charles Engles" <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
> ? ? Dear Mike,
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Ah, an opinion question.
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I am 6'4" and have just enough head room in both Panteras with
> ? ? modifications that do not include lowering the floor pan. Decades ago, I got
> ? ? to sit in a GT5.? I remarked to the owner that it was so much roomier than
> ? ? standard Panteras and he pointed out the factory dropped floor pans.? I was
> ? ? impressed by the improvement.? I would say that it will give you more room
> ? ? and comfort.? Should you ever want to take to the track, the extra room for
> ? ? the helmet is a plus. You'll have more choices of seats.? Finally, there is
> ? ? no better time to do it than while the car is on the rotisserie.?
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
> ? ? -----Original Message-----
> ? ? From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
> ? ? Of Mike & Elizabeth
> ? ? Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:23 PM
> ? ? To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> ? ? Subject: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
>
> ? ? OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out there.
>
>
>
> ? ? Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time by the
> ? ? same guy.? Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance when he has
> ? ? a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.? Since my car is in
> ? ? bare metal right now and about to go on the rotisserie for all of the other
> ? ? metal work, I'm wondering if I should reconsider while I have the
> ? ? opportunity.? Headroom for me has always been just 'adequate' and I do have
> ? ? the seat springs removed from the bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm
> ? ? basically sitting on the floor.? I don't plan to track or autocross the car
> ? ? so don't need helmet clearance but it would be nice to be able to consider a
> ? ? seat upgrade sometime in the future if the C4's get old.
>
>
>
> ? ? Thoughts . . .
>
>
>
> ? ? Thanks, Mike Thomas
>
> ? ? Panteras Northwest
>
>
> ? ? _______________________________________________
>
>
> ? ? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> ? ? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> ? ? DeTomaso mailing list
> ? ? DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> ? ? http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ? ? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> ? ? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> -------------- next part --------------
> I agree ... with comment that you can raise seats if you find them too
> low .... shim to desired height and know if you change seats you have
> the main item covered ...
>
> 3400 has dropped pans and Hall seats ... I am not as tall as Dr. but am
> long torso. I had to remove raised vent on top of helmet for roof
> clearance. And the head liner is against room .. with no sag. FWIW
> Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
> ! )
>
> On Wednesday, April 28, 2021, 4:05:40 PM CDT, Will Kooiman
> <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
> Drop 'em. It's an easy mod with few downsides.
> It gives you more options if you decide to change seats later on.
> If you donat like how low they are, it's easy to raise them.
> You can always drop them later on, but as long as you're in bare metal,
> now is the time to do it.
> i>>?On 4/28/21, 2:18 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Charles Engles"
> <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> [2]cengles at cox.net> wrote:
> Dear Mike,
> Ah, an opinion question.
> I am 6'4" and have just enough head room in both
> Panteras with
> modifications that do not include lowering the floor pan. Decades
> ago, I got
> to sit in a GT5. I remarked to the owner that it was so much
> roomier than
> standard Panteras and he pointed out the factory dropped floor
> pans. I was
> impressed by the improvement. I would say that it will give you
> more room
> and comfort. Should you ever want to take to the track, the extra
> room for
> the helmet is a plus. You'll have more choices of seats. Finally,
> there is
> no better time to do it than while the car is on the rotisserie.
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[3]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
> On Behalf
> Of Mike & Elizabeth
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:23 PM
> To: [4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
> OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one
> out there.
> Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time
> by the
> same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
> when he has
> a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop. Since my car
> is in
> bare metal right now and about to go on the rotisserie for all of
> the other
> metal work, I'm wondering if I should reconsider while I have the
> opportunity. Headroom for me has always been just 'adequate' and I
> do have
> the seat springs removed from the bottom cushion of my C4 seats so
> I'm
> basically sitting on the floor. I don't plan to track or autocross
> the car
> so don't need helmet clearance but it would be nice to be able to
> consider a
> seat upgrade sometime in the future if the C4's get old.
> Thoughts . . .
> Thanks, Mike Thomas
> Panteras Northwest
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [5]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [7]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 2. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> 3. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 7. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 00:32:52 +0000 (UTC)
> From: jderyke at aol.com
> To: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, "mbefthomas2 at gmail.com"
> <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
> Message-ID: <1585703139.903960.1619656372948 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I tend to agree with the don't-cut folks. I'm 6'2" and by simply and cheaply modifying the stock (early) seat back-rake angle, I always had plenty of headroom even when wearing a helmet. Plus, I shared the car with a 5'2" wife who obviously did not need a dropped floor, so it would have forced us to carry some sort of booster aboard a rather small street car. The adjustable-rake seat(s) make getting either of us comfortable a few seconds adjustment in either seat- even while on the road.
>
> Cutting the floor often means you lose fore-&-aft seat adjustment for pedal position as well. If so, floor mods can complicate the situation with multiple drivers & pedal extensions etc. If you're the only driver, cut away (just not the floor-stiffening crossmember. The Pantera monococque is none too stiff anyway!)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Garth Rodericks via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>; DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Wed, Apr 28, 2021 4:39 pm
> Subject: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
>
> ? Don't do it!
> ? From everything you've told us, you don't need to, so don't.? If and
> ? when the time comes that you need to make an adjustment for more
> ? headroom (e.g. because of a new seat), you can modify it then.? And
> ? frankly, there are less intrusive ways to get more headroom before
> ? going to dropped floor pans.
> ? That's my 2-cents, and it's only worth what you paid for it!? :)
> -------------- original message --------------
> ? OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out
> ? there.
>
>
> ? Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time by
> ? the same guy.? Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
> ? when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.
> ? Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
> ? rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I should
> ? reconsider while I have the opportunity.? Headroom for me has always
> ? been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed from the
> ? bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the floor.? I
> ? don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet clearance
> ? but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade sometime in
> ? the future if the C4's get old.
>
>
> ? Thoughts . . .
>
>
> ? Thanks, Mike Thomas
>
> ? Panteras Northwest
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> -------------- next part --------------
> I tend to agree with the don't-cut folks. I'm 6'2" and by simply and
> cheaply modifying the stock (early) seat back-rake angle, I always had
> plenty of headroom even when wearing a helmet. Plus, I shared the car
> with a 5'2" wife who obviously did not need a dropped floor, so it
> would have forced us to carry some sort of booster aboard a rather
> small street car. The adjustable-rake seat(s) make getting either of us
> comfortable a few seconds adjustment in either seat- even while on the
> road.
> Cutting the floor often means you lose fore-&-aft seat adjustment for
> pedal position as well. If so, floor mods can complicate the situation
> with multiple drivers & pedal extensions etc. If you're the only
> driver, cut away (just not the floor-stiffening crossmember. The
> Pantera monococque is none too stiff anyway!)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Garth Rodericks via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>; DeTomaso Mail List
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Wed, Apr 28, 2021 4:39 pm
> Subject: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
> Don't do it!
> From everything you've told us, you don't need to, so don't. If and
> when the time comes that you need to make an adjustment for more
> headroom (e.g. because of a new seat), you can modify it then. And
> frankly, there are less intrusive ways to get more headroom before
> going to dropped floor pans.
> That's my 2-cents, and it's only worth what you paid for it! :)
> -------------- original message --------------
> OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out
> there.
> Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time
> by
> the same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
> when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.
> Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
> rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I should
> reconsider while I have the opportunity. Headroom for me has always
> been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed from the
> bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the floor.
> I
> don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet
> clearance
> but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade sometime
> in
> the future if the C4's get old.
> Thoughts . . .
> Thanks, Mike Thomas
> Panteras Northwest
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [1]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 20:40:04 -0500
> From: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
> Message-ID:
> <CAD=EzWU7fhnf-txLrfaCvouFJ8cP-m21VA=OK4wGCeApTQ18gQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I'm 6'5" and have installed dropped floor pans in both of my Panteras,
> along with C4 Corvette seats. A smaller diameter steering wheel, pedal
> spacers (for increased leg room) and a bulkhead reduction kit round out the
> modifications. Highly recommended. My floor pans are from Kirk Evans. He
> offers a couple of drops and mine are the deeper ones that drop the rear of
> the floor around 3" and the front maybe an 1.5". They do cut through the
> crossmember but with the filler pieces, I don't think they sacrifice any
> rigidity. Jacking the car on one corner will lift it off the ground on 3
> corners with no sag (doors will open and close fine) so it seems stiff.
> I've not noticed any problems driving it either but I did install a chassis
> stiffening kit at the same time.
>
> As I understand it, Kirk has a revised design. Mine's the earlier version
> but here's what Kirk said about his new design:
>
> "I totally redesigned the pans and was able to keep
> the front///bottom of the original cross-member intact
> and supply a new reinforcement which makes it stronger
> than the original---which is not that hard to do.
> I also supply new seat mount rails and my pans are
> 16 gauge steel rather than 20 gauge. These pans
> fit the car far better than any this built to date."
>
> The following comments are relative to his earlier design but may still be
> of interest. These are the big pans that cut into both the fore-and-aft
> and side-to-side floor pan reinforcements. This allows for larger seats
> and permits the seats to slide fore-and-aft, unlike the drop pans that stay
> within the boundaries of the original pan reinforcements. Kirk supplies
> stiffeners that run the length of the pans and also serve as the mounts for
> the seat rails. The stiffeners keep the flat pans from "oil canning". At
> the front, you cut across the floor pan fore-and-aft frame rail, cap it off
> (with the shaped leading edge part of the new pan) and then weld a pair of
> heavy steel u-channels (upside down) to the floor pan. The outer u-channel
> is in line with the old floor pan fore-and-aft frame rail. It butts up
> against the pan on both ends. You weld it to the pan along both long edges
> and both short edges. It then forms a load path similar to the original
> fore-and-aft frame rail. Be sure to make triangular pieces underneath the
> car so the rear rails tie into the pans. I made filler pieces (patterned
> off of cardboard templates) to close off the various gaps (there's a
> sizable one around the emergency brake handle and several smaller ones both
> inside the passenger compartment and underneath). On the bottom side, I
> made pieces that tie the pan directly to the fore-and-aft and side-to-side
> frame rails. Note the aft portion of the pan wasn't formed by a metal
> brake. Instead, it was a separate piece of metal tack welded to the main
> pan. Under load, that portion off the pan deflected so we welded along the
> entire length and it became very rigid. I'm pretty sure I had to trim the
> metal surrounding the parking brake handle but forget the details.
>
> Even though there is some rake built into the pans, I needed to install
> stands to get the fixed headrest C4 seats in a comfortable position.
>
> Dan Jones
> -------------- next part --------------
> I'm 6'5" and have installed dropped floor pans in both of my Panteras,
> along with C4 Corvette seats.A A smaller diameter steering wheel,
> pedal spacers (for increased leg room) and a bulkhead reduction kit
> round out the modifications.A Highly recommended.A My floor pans are
> from Kirk Evans.A He offers a couple of drops and mine are the deeper
> ones that drop the rear of the floor around 3" and the front maybe an
> 1.5".A They do cut through the crossmember but with the filler pieces,
> I don't think they sacrifice any rigidity.A Jacking the car on one
> corner will lift it off the ground on 3 corners with no sag (doors will
> open and close fine) so it seems stiff.A I've not noticed any problems
> driving it either but I did install a chassis stiffening kit at the
> same time.
> As I understand it, Kirk has a revised design.A Mine's the earlier
> version but here's what Kirk said about his new design:
> "I totally redesigned the pans and was able to keep
> A the front///bottom of the original cross-member intact
> A and supply a new reinforcement which makes it stronger
> A than the original---which is not that hard to do.
> A I also supply new seat mount rails and my pans are
> A 16 gauge steel rather than 20 gauge. These pans
> A fit the car far better than any this built to date."
> The following comments are relative to his earlier design but may still
> be of interest.A These are the big pans that cut into both the
> fore-and-aft and side-to-side floor pan reinforcements.A This allows
> for larger seats and permits the seats to slide fore-and-aft, unlike
> the drop pans that stay within the boundaries of the original pan
> reinforcements.A Kirk supplies stiffeners that run the length of the
> pans and also serve as the mounts for the seat rails.A The stiffeners
> keep the flat pans from "oil canning".A At the front, you cut across
> the floor pan fore-and-aft frame rail, cap it off (with the shaped
> leading edge part of the new pan) and then weld a pair of heavy steel
> u-channels (upside down) to the floor pan.A The outer u-channel is in
> line with the old floor pan fore-and-aft frame rail.A It butts up
> against the pan on both ends.A You weld it to the pan along both long
> edges and both short edges.A It then forms a load path similar to the
> original fore-and-aft frame rail.A Be sure to make triangular pieces
> underneath the car so the rear rails tie into the pans.A I made filler
> pieces (patterned off of cardboard templates) to close off the various
> gaps (there's a sizable one around the emergency brake handle and
> several smaller ones both inside the passenger compartment and
> underneath).A On the bottom side, I made pieces that tie the pan
> directly to the fore-and-aft and side-to-side frame rails.A Note the
> aft portion of the pan wasn't formed by a metal brake.A Instead, it
> was a separate piece of metal tack welded to the main pan.A Under
> load, that portion off the pan deflected so we welded along the entire
> length and it became very rigid.A I'm pretty sure I had to trim the
> metal surrounding the parking brake handle but forget the details.
> Even though there is some rake built into the pans, I needed to install
> stands to get the fixed headrest C4 seats in a comfortable position.
> Dan Jones
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 20:41:58 -0500
> From: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
> Message-ID:
> <CAD=EzWUjUHO1ccaUurxBwb5nFFNkVH24RBG3GHJx6+SO96eBrg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I tried attaching some pictures but got rejected due to size of post.
> Sending them separately.
>
> Dan Jones
>
> On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 8:40 PM Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm 6'5" and have installed dropped floor pans in both of my Panteras,
>> along with C4 Corvette seats. A smaller diameter steering wheel, pedal
>> spacers (for increased leg room) and a bulkhead reduction kit round out the
>> modifications. Highly recommended. My floor pans are from Kirk Evans. He
>> offers a couple of drops and mine are the deeper ones that drop the rear of
>> the floor around 3" and the front maybe an 1.5". They do cut through the
>> crossmember but with the filler pieces, I don't think they sacrifice any
>> rigidity. Jacking the car on one corner will lift it off the ground on 3
>> corners with no sag (doors will open and close fine) so it seems stiff.
>> I've not noticed any problems driving it either but I did install a chassis
>> stiffening kit at the same time.
>>
>> As I understand it, Kirk has a revised design. Mine's the earlier version
>> but here's what Kirk said about his new design:
>>
>> "I totally redesigned the pans and was able to keep
>> the front///bottom of the original cross-member intact
>> and supply a new reinforcement which makes it stronger
>> than the original---which is not that hard to do.
>> I also supply new seat mount rails and my pans are
>> 16 gauge steel rather than 20 gauge. These pans
>> fit the car far better than any this built to date."
>>
>> The following comments are relative to his earlier design but may still be
>> of interest. These are the big pans that cut into both the fore-and-aft
>> and side-to-side floor pan reinforcements. This allows for larger seats
>> and permits the seats to slide fore-and-aft, unlike the drop pans that stay
>> within the boundaries of the original pan reinforcements. Kirk supplies
>> stiffeners that run the length of the pans and also serve as the mounts for
>> the seat rails. The stiffeners keep the flat pans from "oil canning". At
>> the front, you cut across the floor pan fore-and-aft frame rail, cap it off
>> (with the shaped leading edge part of the new pan) and then weld a pair of
>> heavy steel u-channels (upside down) to the floor pan. The outer u-channel
>> is in line with the old floor pan fore-and-aft frame rail. It butts up
>> against the pan on both ends. You weld it to the pan along both long edges
>> and both short edges. It then forms a load path similar to the original
>> fore-and-aft frame rail. Be sure to make triangular pieces underneath the
>> car so the rear rails tie into the pans. I made filler pieces (patterned
>> off of cardboard templates) to close off the various gaps (there's a
>> sizable one around the emergency brake handle and several smaller ones both
>> inside the passenger compartment and underneath). On the bottom side, I
>> made pieces that tie the pan directly to the fore-and-aft and side-to-side
>> frame rails. Note the aft portion of the pan wasn't formed by a metal
>> brake. Instead, it was a separate piece of metal tack welded to the main
>> pan. Under load, that portion off the pan deflected so we welded along the
>> entire length and it became very rigid. I'm pretty sure I had to trim the
>> metal surrounding the parking brake handle but forget the details.
>>
>> Even though there is some rake built into the pans, I needed to install
>> stands to get the fixed headrest C4 seats in a comfortable position.
>>
>> Dan Jones
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> I tried attaching some pictures but got rejected due to size of post.A
> Sending them separately.
> Dan Jones
>
> On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 8:40 PM Daniel C Jones
> <[1]daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm 6'5" and have installed dropped floor pans in both of my Panteras,
> along with C4 Corvette seats.A A smaller diameter steering wheel,
> pedal spacers (for increased leg room) and a bulkhead reduction kit
> round out the modifications.A Highly recommended.A My floor pans are
> from Kirk Evans.A He offers a couple of drops and mine are the deeper
> ones that drop the rear of the floor around 3" and the front maybe an
> 1.5".A They do cut through the crossmember but with the filler pieces,
> I don't think they sacrifice any rigidity.A Jacking the car on one
> corner will lift it off the ground on 3 corners with no sag (doors will
> open and close fine) so it seems stiff.A I've not noticed any problems
> driving it either but I did install a chassis stiffening kit at the
> same time.
> As I understand it, Kirk has a revised design.A Mine's the earlier
> version but here's what Kirk said about his new design:
> "I totally redesigned the pans and was able to keep
> A the front///bottom of the original cross-member intact
> A and supply a new reinforcement which makes it stronger
> A than the original---which is not that hard to do.
> A I also supply new seat mount rails and my pans are
> A 16 gauge steel rather than 20 gauge. These pans
> A fit the car far better than any this built to date."
> The following comments are relative to his earlier design but may still
> be of interest.A These are the big pans that cut into both the
> fore-and-aft and side-to-side floor pan reinforcements.A This allows
> for larger seats and permits the seats to slide fore-and-aft, unlike
> the drop pans that stay within the boundaries of the original pan
> reinforcements.A Kirk supplies stiffeners that run the length of the
> pans and also serve as the mounts for the seat rails.A The stiffeners
> keep the flat pans from "oil canning".A At the front, you cut across
> the floor pan fore-and-aft frame rail, cap it off (with the shaped
> leading edge part of the new pan) and then weld a pair of heavy steel
> u-channels (upside down) to the floor pan.A The outer u-channel is in
> line with the old floor pan fore-and-aft frame rail.A It butts up
> against the pan on both ends.A You weld it to the pan along both long
> edges and both short edges.A It then forms a load path similar to the
> original fore-and-aft frame rail.A Be sure to make triangular pieces
> underneath the car so the rear rails tie into the pans.A I made filler
> pieces (patterned off of cardboard templates) to close off the various
> gaps (there's a sizable one around the emergency brake handle and
> several smaller ones both inside the passenger compartment and
> underneath).A On the bottom side, I made pieces that tie the pan
> directly to the fore-and-aft and side-to-side frame rails.A Note the
> aft portion of the pan wasn't formed by a metal brake.A Instead, it
> was a separate piece of metal tack welded to the main pan.A Under
> load, that portion off the pan deflected so we welded along the entire
> length and it became very rigid.A I'm pretty sure I had to trim the
> metal surrounding the parking brake handle but forget the details.
> Even though there is some rake built into the pans, I needed to install
> stands to get the fixed headrest C4 seats in a comfortable position.
> Dan Jones
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
> -------------- next part --------------
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> Desc: not available
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 20:42:41 -0500
> From: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
> Message-ID:
> <CAD=EzWVAQw1f93OB8bLZwjVuzBNWVezJnRg3jM-a+v1LDKiC+A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> Name: White_Pantera_interior_insulation_drop_pan_seat_riser.jpg
> Type: image/jpeg
> Size: 613353 bytes
> Desc: not available
> URL: <http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/attachments/20210428/6cbc2159/attachment-0001.jpg>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 20:44:13 -0500
> From: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
> Message-ID:
> <CAD=EzWXCe0XbR8SEjf+_eXPY-kVtA-5TULjFjfUTuSNJEe6RCg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> Name: Red_Pantera_underneath_showing_pan_leading_edge.jpg
> Type: image/jpeg
> Size: 494820 bytes
> Desc: not available
> URL: <http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/attachments/20210428/19706bc9/attachment.jpg>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 202, Issue 21
> *****************************************
-------------- next part --------------
I dropped my floor pans over 20 years ago and have been very pleased
with the result.
1. Gives me more head room, I am 6-2 but overall height alone is not
the only consideration; I have a taller sitting height. Any one who
has flown aircraft with ejection seats will understand the issue. I
too adjust the rake of my seat for comfort; no issue with visibility.
2. Greater selection of seats for my car.
3. Done properly it adds stiffness to the chassis. Using the right
gauge of material and properly thought out installation/welding helps.
Gary Hall and I extensively talked through this aspect. He proved the
concept and installation on the high power, removable top "Purple
Passion". The resulting stiffening really helps with the new
generation of sticky tires and bigger wheels.
Scott Davis 1972 pre-L #3577
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 28, 2021, at 9:44 PM,
detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com wrote:
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Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. To Drop or Not to Drop (Mike & Elizabeth)
2. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Mike Drew)
3. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Charles Engles)
4. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Will Kooiman)
5. Screens for the heater/AC fan motors (Mike & Elizabeth)
6. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Corey Price)
7. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Steve Lisa)
8. To Drop or Not to Drop (Garth Rodericks)
9. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (B Hower)
10. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (jderyke at aol.com)
11. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Daniel C Jones)
12. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Daniel C Jones)
13. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Daniel C Jones)
14. Re: To Drop or Not to Drop (Daniel C Jones)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 10:22:44 -0700
From: "Mike & Elizabeth" <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
To: <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
Message-ID: <011601d73c53$1a005320$4e00f960$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out
there.
Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time by
the
same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance when he
has
a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop. Since my car is
in
bare metal right now and about to go on the rotisserie for all of the
other
metal work, I'm wondering if I should reconsider while I have the
opportunity. Headroom for me has always been just 'adequate' and I do
have
the seat springs removed from the bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm
basically sitting on the floor. I don't plan to track or autocross the
car
so don't need helmet clearance but it would be nice to be able to
consider a
seat upgrade sometime in the future if the C4's get old.
Thoughts . . .
Thanks, Mike Thomas
Panteras Northwest
-------------- next part --------------
OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out
there.
Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time
by
the same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.
Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I should
reconsider while I have the opportunity. Headroom for me has always
been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed from the
bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the floor.
I
don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet
clearance
but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade sometime
in
the future if the C4's get old.
Thoughts . . .
Thanks, Mike Thomas
Panteras Northwest
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 10:41:12 -0700
From: Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>
To: Mike & Elizabeth <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
Message-ID: <F11FCE8B-580C-469B-866C-920ADEBEBC30 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Mike,
Dropping floorpans is a decision each has to make for himself. I will
say that the later cars (GT5-S etc) come with dropped pans from the
factory and personally I feel they sit too low. My own car has dropped
pans because my Recaro seats are several inches taller so they cancel
each other out.
If you were happy before, I doubt you will be happier of you change it.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 28, 2021, at 10:22, Mike & Elizabeth <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
wrote:
? OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this
one out
there.
Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time
by
the same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.
Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I
should
reconsider while I have the opportunity. Headroom for me has
always
been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed from
the
bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the
floor. I
don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet
clearance
but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade sometime
in
the future if the C4's get old.
Thoughts . . .
Thanks, Mike Thomas
Panteras Northwest
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 13:18:29 -0500
From: "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net>
To: "'Mike & Elizabeth'" <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>,
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
Message-ID: <004901d73c5a$e454e0d0$acfea270$@cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Mike,
Ah, an opinion question.
I am 6'4" and have just enough head room in both Panteras
with
modifications that do not include lowering the floor pan. Decades ago,
I got
to sit in a GT5. I remarked to the owner that it was so much roomier
than
standard Panteras and he pointed out the factory dropped floor pans.
I was
impressed by the improvement. I would say that it will give you more
room
and comfort. Should you ever want to take to the track, the extra room
for
the helmet is a plus. You'll have more choices of seats. Finally,
there is
no better time to do it than while the car is on the rotisserie.
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
Behalf
Of Mike & Elizabeth
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:23 PM
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out
there.
Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time by
the
same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance when he
has
a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop. Since my car is
in
bare metal right now and about to go on the rotisserie for all of the
other
metal work, I'm wondering if I should reconsider while I have the
opportunity. Headroom for me has always been just 'adequate' and I do
have
the seat springs removed from the bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm
basically sitting on the floor. I don't plan to track or autocross the
car
so don't need helmet clearance but it would be nice to be able to
consider a
seat upgrade sometime in the future if the C4's get old.
Thoughts . . .
Thanks, Mike Thomas
Panteras Northwest
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 17:05:33 -0400
From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>, 'Mike & Elizabeth'
<mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>, <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
Message-ID: <183B5BAC-52E9-4215-B68F-BC4153EB80D6 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Drop 'em. It's an easy mod with few downsides.
It gives you more options if you decide to change seats later on.
If you don?t like how low they are, it's easy to raise them.
You can always drop them later on, but as long as you're in bare metal,
now is the time to do it.
?On 4/28/21, 2:18 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Charles Engles"
<detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of cengles at cox.net>
wrote:
Dear Mike,
Ah, an opinion question.
I am 6'4" and have just enough head room in both
Panteras with
modifications that do not include lowering the floor pan. Decades
ago, I got
to sit in a GT5. I remarked to the owner that it was so much
roomier than
standard Panteras and he pointed out the factory dropped floor pans.
I was
impressed by the improvement. I would say that it will give you
more room
and comfort. Should you ever want to take to the track, the extra
room for
the helmet is a plus. You'll have more choices of seats. Finally,
there is
no better time to do it than while the car is on the rotisserie.
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
Behalf
Of Mike & Elizabeth
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:23 PM
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one
out there.
Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time
by the
same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance when
he has
a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop. Since my car
is in
bare metal right now and about to go on the rotisserie for all of
the other
metal work, I'm wondering if I should reconsider while I have the
opportunity. Headroom for me has always been just 'adequate' and I
do have
the seat springs removed from the bottom cushion of my C4 seats so
I'm
basically sitting on the floor. I don't plan to track or autocross
the car
so don't need helmet clearance but it would be nice to be able to
consider a
seat upgrade sometime in the future if the C4's get old.
Thoughts . . .
Thanks, Mike Thomas
Panteras Northwest
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
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To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 16:08:13 -0700
From: "Mike & Elizabeth" <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
To: <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Screens for the heater/AC fan motors
Message-ID: <027401d73c83$5db36820$191a3860$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
When I took the heater/AC box from 6328 apart, there were fine-mesh
metal
screens across the apertures where air flows from the bans into the
box.
I'm replacing the fan unit with a 3-speed unit and have new screen
material
cut but when I asked a couple of others who have done the same what
they
used for the screens they replied "What screen . . . ?". Was this only
done
on later cars, or perhaps an owner mod on mine?
Just curious. It makes sense from the stand point of keeping any
debris
from getting into the box and fouling the core but you'd never be able
to
clear the screens without pulling the dash, box and fan unit.
Mike Thomas
-------------- next part --------------
When I took the heater/AC box from 6328 apart, there were fine-mesh
metal screens across the apertures where air flows from the bans into
the box. I'm replacing the fan unit with a 3-speed unit and have new
screen material cut but when I asked a couple of others who have done
the same what they used for the screens they replied "What screen . .
.
?". Was this only done on later cars, or perhaps an owner mod on
mine?
Just curious. It makes sense from the stand point of keeping any
debris from getting into the box and fouling the core but you'd never
be able to clear the screens without pulling the dash, box and fan
unit.
Mike Thomas
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 17:09:50 -0600
From: Corey Price <coreyjprice at gmail.com>
To: Mike & Elizabeth <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
Message-ID: <9F3741B4-F131-4DD7-9052-7E5C16245730 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Mike,
I debated the same thing on my car and ultimately decided not to. There
are a few ways to do it, and I was headed down the road that lead to
cutting the crossmember. I talked to Dennis Quella and he talked me out
of it in favor of other less intrusive ways of gaining headroom.
Corey
On Apr 28, 2021, at 11:22 AM, Mike & Elizabeth
<mbefthomas2 at gmail.com> wrote:
? OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this
one out
there.
Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time
by
the same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.
Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I
should
reconsider while I have the opportunity. Headroom for me has
always
been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed from
the
bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the
floor. I
don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet
clearance
but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade sometime
in
the future if the C4's get old.
Thoughts . . .
Thanks, Mike Thomas
Panteras Northwest
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 16:24:34 -0700
From: Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com>
To: Corey Price <coreyjprice at gmail.com>
Cc: List DeTomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
Message-ID:
<CAOzaoYpecjaUMxwGacTE5=3p5HT2Aid=n-=4L2Gp=d9no9E-3g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
We lowered ours because we need room for a helmet. We cut the floor,
not
the cross-member, dropped the back and re-welded triangular inserts on
the
sides, along with taking the opportunity to gusset some of the areas of
the
cross-members. Except for worrying about shaving our ass on a curb, we
are
happy.
Regards,
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
Direct: 480-442-0297
www.PatentIt.com
Scottsdale Office | P: 480.535.6656 | F: 480.535.6628 | A: 7689
East
Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago Office | P: 312.752.4357 | F: 312.896.5633 | A: 55 E.
Monroe
Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
you.
On Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 16:09 Corey Price <coreyjprice at gmail.com> wrote:
Mike,
I debated the same thing on my car and ultimately decided not to.
There
are a few ways to do it, and I was headed down the road that lead to
cutting the crossmember. I talked to Dennis Quella and he talked me
out of
it in favor of other less intrusive ways of gaining headroom.
Corey
On Apr 28, 2021, at 11:22 AM, Mike & Elizabeth
<mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
wrote:
? OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this
one out
there.
Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time
by
the same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.
Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I
should
reconsider while I have the opportunity. Headroom for me has
always
been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed from
the
bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the
floor. I
don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet
clearance
but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade sometime
in
the future if the C4's get old.
Thoughts . . .
Thanks, Mike Thomas
Panteras Northwest
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-------------- next part --------------
We lowered ours because we need room for a helmet.A We cut the
floor,
not the cross-member, dropped the back and re-welded triangular
inserts
on the sides, along with taking the opportunity to gusset some of the
areas of the cross-members.A Except for worrying about shaving our
ass
on a curb, we are happy.
Regards,A
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
Direct:A 480-442-0297
[1]www.PatentIt.com
Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
|A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago OfficeA |A P:A 312.752.4357A |A A F:A 312.896.5633A
|A A A:A 55 E. Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email
in
error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me.
Thank
you.
A A A
On Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 16:09 Corey Price <[2]coreyjprice at gmail.com>
wrote:
Mike,
I debated the same thing on my car and ultimately decided not to.
There are a few ways to do it, and I was headed down the road that
lead to cutting the crossmember. I talked to Dennis Quella and he
talked me out of it in favor of other less intrusive ways of
gaining
headroom.
Corey
On Apr 28, 2021, at 11:22 AM, Mike & Elizabeth
<[3]mbefthomas2 at gmail.com> wrote:
i>>?A A OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw
this one out
A A there.
A A Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same
time by
A A the same guy.A Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more
clearance
A A when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a
drop.
A A Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
A A rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I
should
A A reconsider while I have the opportunity.A Headroom for me has
always
A A been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed
from the
A A bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the
floor.A I
A A don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet
clearance
A A but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade
sometime in
A A the future if the C4's get old.
A A Thoughts . . .
A A Thanks, Mike Thomas
A A Panteras Northwest
_______________________________________________
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References
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2. mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com
3. mailto:mbefthomas2 at gmail.com
4. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 23:39:18 +0000 (UTC)
From: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>, DeTomaso Mail List
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
Message-ID: <186210448.2354513.1619653158306 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Don't do it!??
From everything you've told us, you don't need to, so don't.? If and
when the time comes that you need to make an adjustment for more
headroom (e.g. because of a new seat), you can modify it then.? And
frankly, there are less intrusive ways to get more headroom before
going to dropped floor pans.
That's my 2-cents, and it's only worth what you paid for it!? :)
-------------- original message --------------
OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out
there.
Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time
by
the same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.
Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I should
reconsider while I have the opportunity. Headroom for me has always
been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed from the
bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the floor.
I
don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet
clearance
but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade sometime
in
the future if the C4's get old.
Thoughts . . .
Thanks, Mike Thomas
Panteras Northwest
-------------- next part --------------
Don't do it!
From everything you've told us, you don't need to, so don't. If and
when the time comes that you need to make an adjustment for more
headroom (e.g. because of a new seat), you can modify it then. And
frankly, there are less intrusive ways to get more headroom before
going to dropped floor pans.
That's my 2-cents, and it's only worth what you paid for it! :)
-------------- original message --------------
OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out
there.
Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time
by
the same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.
Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I should
reconsider while I have the opportunity. Headroom for me has always
been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed from the
bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the floor.
I
don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet
clearance
but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade sometime
in
the future if the C4's get old.
Thoughts . . .
Thanks, Mike Thomas
Panteras Northwest
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 00:23:57 +0000 (UTC)
From: B Hower <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>, 'Mike & Elizabeth'
<mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>, "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, Will Kooiman
<will.kooiman at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
Message-ID: <1538862617.1335894.1619655837601 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I agree ... with comment that you can raise seats if you find them too
low .... shim to desired height and know if you change seats you have
the main item covered ...
?3400 has dropped pans and Hall seats ... I am not as tall as Dr. but
am long torso. I had to remove raised vent on top of helmet for roof
clearance. And the head liner is against room .. with no sag. FWIW
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
! )
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021, 4:05:40 PM CDT, Will Kooiman
<will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
Drop 'em.? It's an easy mod with few downsides.
It gives you more options if you decide to change seats later on.
If you don?t like how low they are, it's easy to raise them.
You can always drop them later on, but as long as you're in bare metal,
now is the time to do it.
?On 4/28/21, 2:18 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Charles Engles"
<detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of cengles at cox.net>
wrote:
? ? Dear Mike,
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Ah, an opinion question.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I am 6'4" and have just enough head room in both
Panteras with
? ? modifications that do not include lowering the floor pan. Decades
ago, I got
? ? to sit in a GT5.? I remarked to the owner that it was so much
roomier than
? ? standard Panteras and he pointed out the factory dropped floor
pans.? I was
? ? impressed by the improvement.? I would say that it will give you
more room
? ? and comfort.? Should you ever want to take to the track, the extra
room for
? ? the helmet is a plus. You'll have more choices of seats.? Finally,
there is
? ? no better time to do it than while the car is on the rotisserie.?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
? ? -----Original Message-----
? ? From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
Behalf
? ? Of Mike & Elizabeth
? ? Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:23 PM
? ? To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
? ? Subject: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
? ? OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one
out there.
? ? Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time
by the
? ? same guy.? Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
when he has
? ? a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.? Since my car
is in
? ? bare metal right now and about to go on the rotisserie for all of
the other
? ? metal work, I'm wondering if I should reconsider while I have the
? ? opportunity.? Headroom for me has always been just 'adequate' and I
do have
? ? the seat springs removed from the bottom cushion of my C4 seats so
I'm
? ? basically sitting on the floor.? I don't plan to track or autocross
the car
? ? so don't need helmet clearance but it would be nice to be able to
consider a
? ? seat upgrade sometime in the future if the C4's get old.
? ? Thoughts . . .
? ? Thanks, Mike Thomas
? ? Panteras Northwest
? ? _______________________________________________
? ? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
? ? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
? ? DeTomaso mailing list
? ? DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
? ? http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
? ? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
? ? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
I agree ... with comment that you can raise seats if you find them
too
low .... shim to desired height and know if you change seats you have
the main item covered ...
3400 has dropped pans and Hall seats ... I am not as tall as Dr. but
am
long torso. I had to remove raised vent on top of helmet for roof
clearance. And the head liner is against room .. with no sag. FWIW
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not
be
! )
On Wednesday, April 28, 2021, 4:05:40 PM CDT, Will Kooiman
<will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
Drop 'em. It's an easy mod with few downsides.
It gives you more options if you decide to change seats later on.
If you donat like how low they are, it's easy to raise them.
You can always drop them later on, but as long as you're in bare
metal,
now is the time to do it.
i>>?On 4/28/21, 2:18 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Charles Engles"
<[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
[2]cengles at cox.net> wrote:
Dear Mike,
Ah, an opinion question.
I am 6'4" and have just enough head room in both
Panteras with
modifications that do not include lowering the floor pan. Decades
ago, I got
to sit in a GT5. I remarked to the owner that it was so much
roomier than
standard Panteras and he pointed out the factory dropped floor
pans. I was
impressed by the improvement. I would say that it will give you
more room
and comfort. Should you ever want to take to the track, the
extra
room for
the helmet is a plus. You'll have more choices of seats.
Finally,
there is
no better time to do it than while the car is on the rotisserie.
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso
[mailto:[3]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On Behalf
Of Mike & Elizabeth
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:23 PM
To: [4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one
out there.
Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same
time
by the
same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
when he has
a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop. Since my
car
is in
bare metal right now and about to go on the rotisserie for all of
the other
metal work, I'm wondering if I should reconsider while I have the
opportunity. Headroom for me has always been just 'adequate' and
I
do have
the seat springs removed from the bottom cushion of my C4 seats
so
I'm
basically sitting on the floor. I don't plan to track or
autocross
the car
so don't need helmet clearance but it would be nice to be able to
consider a
seat upgrade sometime in the future if the C4's get old.
Thoughts . . .
Thanks, Mike Thomas
Panteras Northwest
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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[5]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
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or approve the archiving of list messages.
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References
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2. mailto:cengles at cox.net
3. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
7. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 00:32:52 +0000 (UTC)
From: jderyke at aol.com
To: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, "mbefthomas2 at gmail.com"
<mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
Message-ID: <1585703139.903960.1619656372948 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I tend to agree with the don't-cut folks. I'm 6'2" and by simply and
cheaply modifying the stock (early) seat back-rake angle, I always had
plenty of headroom even when wearing a helmet. Plus, I shared the car
with a 5'2" wife who obviously did not need a dropped floor, so it
would have forced us to carry some sort of booster aboard a rather
small street car. The adjustable-rake seat(s) make getting either of us
comfortable a few seconds adjustment in either seat- even while on the
road.
Cutting the floor often means you lose fore-&-aft seat adjustment for
pedal position as well. If so, floor mods can complicate the situation
with multiple drivers & pedal extensions etc. If you're the only
driver, cut away (just not the floor-stiffening crossmember. The
Pantera monococque is none too stiff anyway!)
-----Original Message-----
From: Garth Rodericks via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>; DeTomaso Mail List
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wed, Apr 28, 2021 4:39 pm
Subject: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
? Don't do it!
? From everything you've told us, you don't need to, so don't.? If and
? when the time comes that you need to make an adjustment for more
? headroom (e.g. because of a new seat), you can modify it then.? And
? frankly, there are less intrusive ways to get more headroom before
? going to dropped floor pans.
? That's my 2-cents, and it's only worth what you paid for it!? :)
-------------- original message --------------
? OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one out
? there.
? Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time
by
? the same guy.? Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
? when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.
? Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
? rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I should
? reconsider while I have the opportunity.? Headroom for me has always
? been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed from the
? bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the floor.?
I
? don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet
clearance
? but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade sometime
in
? the future if the C4's get old.
? Thoughts . . .
? Thanks, Mike Thomas
? Panteras Northwest
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
I tend to agree with the don't-cut folks. I'm 6'2" and by simply and
cheaply modifying the stock (early) seat back-rake angle, I always
had
plenty of headroom even when wearing a helmet. Plus, I shared the car
with a 5'2" wife who obviously did not need a dropped floor, so it
would have forced us to carry some sort of booster aboard a rather
small street car. The adjustable-rake seat(s) make getting either of
us
comfortable a few seconds adjustment in either seat- even while on
the
road.
Cutting the floor often means you lose fore-&-aft seat adjustment for
pedal position as well. If so, floor mods can complicate the
situation
with multiple drivers & pedal extensions etc. If you're the only
driver, cut away (just not the floor-stiffening crossmember. The
Pantera monococque is none too stiff anyway!)
-----Original Message-----
From: Garth Rodericks via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>; DeTomaso Mail List
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wed, Apr 28, 2021 4:39 pm
Subject: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
Don't do it!
From everything you've told us, you don't need to, so don't. If
and
when the time comes that you need to make an adjustment for more
headroom (e.g. because of a new seat), you can modify it then. And
frankly, there are less intrusive ways to get more headroom before
going to dropped floor pans.
That's my 2-cents, and it's only worth what you paid for it! :)
-------------- original message --------------
OK, the forum has been pretty quiet lately so I'll throw this one
out
there.
Doug Braun and I are both having our cars restored at the same time
by
the same guy. Doug has done a dropped floor pan for more clearance
when he has a helmet on but so far I'm not planning to do a drop.
Since my car is in bare metal right now and about to go on the
rotisserie for all of the other metal work, I'm wondering if I
should
reconsider while I have the opportunity. Headroom for me has
always
been just `adequate' and I do have the seat springs removed from
the
bottom cushion of my C4 seats so I'm basically sitting on the
floor.
I
don't plan to track or autocross the car so don't need helmet
clearance
but it would be nice to be able to consider a seat upgrade sometime
in
the future if the C4's get old.
Thoughts . . .
Thanks, Mike Thomas
Panteras Northwest
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[1]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
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or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
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2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 20:40:04 -0500
From: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
Message-ID:
<CAD=EzWU7fhnf-txLrfaCvouFJ8cP-m21VA=OK4wGCeApTQ18gQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I'm 6'5" and have installed dropped floor pans in both of my Panteras,
along with C4 Corvette seats. A smaller diameter steering wheel, pedal
spacers (for increased leg room) and a bulkhead reduction kit round out
the
modifications. Highly recommended. My floor pans are from Kirk Evans.
He
offers a couple of drops and mine are the deeper ones that drop the
rear of
the floor around 3" and the front maybe an 1.5". They do cut through
the
crossmember but with the filler pieces, I don't think they sacrifice
any
rigidity. Jacking the car on one corner will lift it off the ground on
3
corners with no sag (doors will open and close fine) so it seems stiff.
I've not noticed any problems driving it either but I did install a
chassis
stiffening kit at the same time.
As I understand it, Kirk has a revised design. Mine's the earlier
version
but here's what Kirk said about his new design:
"I totally redesigned the pans and was able to keep
the front///bottom of the original cross-member intact
and supply a new reinforcement which makes it stronger
than the original---which is not that hard to do.
I also supply new seat mount rails and my pans are
16 gauge steel rather than 20 gauge. These pans
fit the car far better than any this built to date."
The following comments are relative to his earlier design but may still
be
of interest. These are the big pans that cut into both the
fore-and-aft
and side-to-side floor pan reinforcements. This allows for larger
seats
and permits the seats to slide fore-and-aft, unlike the drop pans that
stay
within the boundaries of the original pan reinforcements. Kirk
supplies
stiffeners that run the length of the pans and also serve as the mounts
for
the seat rails. The stiffeners keep the flat pans from "oil canning".
At
the front, you cut across the floor pan fore-and-aft frame rail, cap it
off
(with the shaped leading edge part of the new pan) and then weld a pair
of
heavy steel u-channels (upside down) to the floor pan. The outer
u-channel
is in line with the old floor pan fore-and-aft frame rail. It butts up
against the pan on both ends. You weld it to the pan along both long
edges
and both short edges. It then forms a load path similar to the
original
fore-and-aft frame rail. Be sure to make triangular pieces underneath
the
car so the rear rails tie into the pans. I made filler pieces
(patterned
off of cardboard templates) to close off the various gaps (there's a
sizable one around the emergency brake handle and several smaller ones
both
inside the passenger compartment and underneath). On the bottom side,
I
made pieces that tie the pan directly to the fore-and-aft and
side-to-side
frame rails. Note the aft portion of the pan wasn't formed by a metal
brake. Instead, it was a separate piece of metal tack welded to the
main
pan. Under load, that portion off the pan deflected so we welded along
the
entire length and it became very rigid. I'm pretty sure I had to trim
the
metal surrounding the parking brake handle but forget the details.
Even though there is some rake built into the pans, I needed to install
stands to get the fixed headrest C4 seats in a comfortable position.
Dan Jones
-------------- next part --------------
I'm 6'5" and have installed dropped floor pans in both of my
Panteras,
along with C4 Corvette seats.A A smaller diameter steering wheel,
pedal spacers (for increased leg room) and a bulkhead reduction kit
round out the modifications.A Highly recommended.A My floor pans
are
from Kirk Evans.A He offers a couple of drops and mine are the
deeper
ones that drop the rear of the floor around 3" and the front maybe an
1.5".A They do cut through the crossmember but with the filler
pieces,
I don't think they sacrifice any rigidity.A Jacking the car on one
corner will lift it off the ground on 3 corners with no sag (doors
will
open and close fine) so it seems stiff.A I've not noticed any
problems
driving it either but I did install a chassis stiffening kit at the
same time.
As I understand it, Kirk has a revised design.A Mine's the earlier
version but here's what Kirk said about his new design:
"I totally redesigned the pans and was able to keep
A the front///bottom of the original cross-member intact
A and supply a new reinforcement which makes it stronger
A than the original---which is not that hard to do.
A I also supply new seat mount rails and my pans are
A 16 gauge steel rather than 20 gauge. These pans
A fit the car far better than any this built to date."
The following comments are relative to his earlier design but may
still
be of interest.A These are the big pans that cut into both the
fore-and-aft and side-to-side floor pan reinforcements.A This allows
for larger seats and permits the seats to slide fore-and-aft, unlike
the drop pans that stay within the boundaries of the original pan
reinforcements.A Kirk supplies stiffeners that run the length of the
pans and also serve as the mounts for the seat rails.A The
stiffeners
keep the flat pans from "oil canning".A At the front, you cut across
the floor pan fore-and-aft frame rail, cap it off (with the shaped
leading edge part of the new pan) and then weld a pair of heavy steel
u-channels (upside down) to the floor pan.A The outer u-channel is
in
line with the old floor pan fore-and-aft frame rail.A It butts up
against the pan on both ends.A You weld it to the pan along both
long
edges and both short edges.A It then forms a load path similar to
the
original fore-and-aft frame rail.A Be sure to make triangular pieces
underneath the car so the rear rails tie into the pans.A I made
filler
pieces (patterned off of cardboard templates) to close off the
various
gaps (there's a sizable one around the emergency brake handle and
several smaller ones both inside the passenger compartment and
underneath).A On the bottom side, I made pieces that tie the pan
directly to the fore-and-aft and side-to-side frame rails.A Note the
aft portion of the pan wasn't formed by a metal brake.A Instead, it
was a separate piece of metal tack welded to the main pan.A Under
load, that portion off the pan deflected so we welded along the
entire
length and it became very rigid.A I'm pretty sure I had to trim the
metal surrounding the parking brake handle but forget the details.
Even though there is some rake built into the pans, I needed to
install
stands to get the fixed headrest C4 seats in a comfortable position.
Dan Jones
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 20:41:58 -0500
From: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
Message-ID:
<CAD=EzWUjUHO1ccaUurxBwb5nFFNkVH24RBG3GHJx6+SO96eBrg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I tried attaching some pictures but got rejected due to size of post.
Sending them separately.
Dan Jones
On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 8:40 PM Daniel C Jones
<daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
wrote:
I'm 6'5" and have installed dropped floor pans in both of my
Panteras,
along with C4 Corvette seats. A smaller diameter steering wheel,
pedal
spacers (for increased leg room) and a bulkhead reduction kit round
out the
modifications. Highly recommended. My floor pans are from Kirk
Evans. He
offers a couple of drops and mine are the deeper ones that drop the
rear of
the floor around 3" and the front maybe an 1.5". They do cut
through the
crossmember but with the filler pieces, I don't think they sacrifice
any
rigidity. Jacking the car on one corner will lift it off the ground
on 3
corners with no sag (doors will open and close fine) so it seems
stiff.
I've not noticed any problems driving it either but I did install a
chassis
stiffening kit at the same time.
As I understand it, Kirk has a revised design. Mine's the earlier
version
but here's what Kirk said about his new design:
"I totally redesigned the pans and was able to keep
the front///bottom of the original cross-member intact
and supply a new reinforcement which makes it stronger
than the original---which is not that hard to do.
I also supply new seat mount rails and my pans are
16 gauge steel rather than 20 gauge. These pans
fit the car far better than any this built to date."
The following comments are relative to his earlier design but may
still be
of interest. These are the big pans that cut into both the
fore-and-aft
and side-to-side floor pan reinforcements. This allows for larger
seats
and permits the seats to slide fore-and-aft, unlike the drop pans
that stay
within the boundaries of the original pan reinforcements. Kirk
supplies
stiffeners that run the length of the pans and also serve as the
mounts for
the seat rails. The stiffeners keep the flat pans from "oil
canning". At
the front, you cut across the floor pan fore-and-aft frame rail, cap
it off
(with the shaped leading edge part of the new pan) and then weld a
pair of
heavy steel u-channels (upside down) to the floor pan. The outer
u-channel
is in line with the old floor pan fore-and-aft frame rail. It butts
up
against the pan on both ends. You weld it to the pan along both
long edges
and both short edges. It then forms a load path similar to the
original
fore-and-aft frame rail. Be sure to make triangular pieces
underneath the
car so the rear rails tie into the pans. I made filler pieces
(patterned
off of cardboard templates) to close off the various gaps (there's a
sizable one around the emergency brake handle and several smaller
ones both
inside the passenger compartment and underneath). On the bottom
side, I
made pieces that tie the pan directly to the fore-and-aft and
side-to-side
frame rails. Note the aft portion of the pan wasn't formed by a
metal
brake. Instead, it was a separate piece of metal tack welded to the
main
pan. Under load, that portion off the pan deflected so we welded
along the
entire length and it became very rigid. I'm pretty sure I had to
trim the
metal surrounding the parking brake handle but forget the details.
Even though there is some rake built into the pans, I needed to
install
stands to get the fixed headrest C4 seats in a comfortable position.
Dan Jones
-------------- next part --------------
I tried attaching some pictures but got rejected due to size of
post.A
Sending them separately.
Dan Jones
On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 8:40 PM Daniel C Jones
<[1]daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com> wrote:
I'm 6'5" and have installed dropped floor pans in both of my
Panteras,
along with C4 Corvette seats.A A smaller diameter steering wheel,
pedal spacers (for increased leg room) and a bulkhead reduction kit
round out the modifications.A Highly recommended.A My floor pans
are
from Kirk Evans.A He offers a couple of drops and mine are the
deeper
ones that drop the rear of the floor around 3" and the front maybe an
1.5".A They do cut through the crossmember but with the filler
pieces,
I don't think they sacrifice any rigidity.A Jacking the car on one
corner will lift it off the ground on 3 corners with no sag (doors
will
open and close fine) so it seems stiff.A I've not noticed any
problems
driving it either but I did install a chassis stiffening kit at the
same time.
As I understand it, Kirk has a revised design.A Mine's the earlier
version but here's what Kirk said about his new design:
"I totally redesigned the pans and was able to keep
A the front///bottom of the original cross-member intact
A and supply a new reinforcement which makes it stronger
A than the original---which is not that hard to do.
A I also supply new seat mount rails and my pans are
A 16 gauge steel rather than 20 gauge. These pans
A fit the car far better than any this built to date."
The following comments are relative to his earlier design but may
still
be of interest.A These are the big pans that cut into both the
fore-and-aft and side-to-side floor pan reinforcements.A This allows
for larger seats and permits the seats to slide fore-and-aft, unlike
the drop pans that stay within the boundaries of the original pan
reinforcements.A Kirk supplies stiffeners that run the length of the
pans and also serve as the mounts for the seat rails.A The
stiffeners
keep the flat pans from "oil canning".A At the front, you cut across
the floor pan fore-and-aft frame rail, cap it off (with the shaped
leading edge part of the new pan) and then weld a pair of heavy steel
u-channels (upside down) to the floor pan.A The outer u-channel is
in
line with the old floor pan fore-and-aft frame rail.A It butts up
against the pan on both ends.A You weld it to the pan along both
long
edges and both short edges.A It then forms a load path similar to
the
original fore-and-aft frame rail.A Be sure to make triangular pieces
underneath the car so the rear rails tie into the pans.A I made
filler
pieces (patterned off of cardboard templates) to close off the
various
gaps (there's a sizable one around the emergency brake handle and
several smaller ones both inside the passenger compartment and
underneath).A On the bottom side, I made pieces that tie the pan
directly to the fore-and-aft and side-to-side frame rails.A Note the
aft portion of the pan wasn't formed by a metal brake.A Instead, it
was a separate piece of metal tack welded to the main pan.A Under
load, that portion off the pan deflected so we welded along the
entire
length and it became very rigid.A I'm pretty sure I had to trim the
metal surrounding the parking brake handle but forget the details.
Even though there is some rake built into the pans, I needed to
install
stands to get the fixed headrest C4 seats in a comfortable position.
Dan Jones
References
1. mailto:daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
-------------- next part --------------
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------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 20:42:41 -0500
From: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
Message-ID:
<CAD=EzWVAQw1f93OB8bLZwjVuzBNWVezJnRg3jM-a+v1LDKiC+A at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
-------------- next part --------------
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/6cbc2159/attachment-0001.jpg>
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 20:44:13 -0500
From: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To Drop or Not to Drop
Message-ID:
<CAD=EzWXCe0XbR8SEjf+_eXPY-kVtA-5TULjFjfUTuSNJEe6RCg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
-------------- next part --------------
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------------------------------
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