[DeTomaso] Shelby GT5-S on Discovery Driven - SPOILER ALERT

Jeff Kimball jgkrenton at comcast.net
Tue Mar 31 13:42:52 EDT 2020


PACK-RAT Alert!!!

Hot Rod Magazine, May 1986, page 79 has a full article on "Carrol's Revenge" a twin turbo Mopar 340 Pantera.  I think it's this same car but haven't confirmed that. The article includes some track data.

(The amazing part is I actually found the magazine when I went looking for it....)

FYA

Jeff/#2467





>     On March 31, 2020 at 9:54 AM Mike Drew via DeTomaso < detomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com > wrote:
> 
> 
>     Ah yes, there it is!
> 
>     I failed to note that when they were running the engine on the engine stand it had a conventional intake with the carb sitting on top, but when they implemented the turbo setup, the carb moved well aft and the intercooler replaced it atop the engine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     Also, here is a screen grab from the junkyard clearly showing the ZF alongside the engine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     Mike
> 
>     Sent from my iPad
> 
> 
>         > >         On Mar 31, 2020, at 09:38, Julian Kift < julian_kift at hotmail.com mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com > wrote:
> > 
> >         Mike,
> > 
> >         Yeah, I missed the air filter sat right there front and center, duh!
> >         Note the carb is sat back almost over the bell housing and not
> >         connected to the intake manifold, the turbos draw through the carb and
> >         then blow into the intake manifold via the intercooler.
> > 
> >         Julian
> >         __________________________________________________________________
> > 
> >         From: Mike Drew < MikeLDrew at aol.com mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com >
> >         Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 9:17 AM
> >         To: Julian Kift < julian_kift at hotmail.com mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com >
> >         Cc: De Tomaso Forum < detomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com >
> >         Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Shelby GT5-S on Discovery Driven - SPOILER
> >         ALERT
> > 
> >         Julian,
> >         No, the air intake is through the air cleaner sitting on top of the
> >         carb. It's a draw-through system meaning the turbos suck from below the
> >         carb instead of pressurizing from above the way a supercharger does.
> >         But what happens after that is a mystery to me.
> >         Mike
> >         Sent from my iPad
> > 
> >         On Mar 31, 2020, at 08:55, Julian Kift < julian_kift at hotmail.com mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com >
> >         wrote:
> > 
> >         Mike,
> >         I looked back at the Bonhams auction photos, you are indeed correct it
> >         came with a fugly drop tip wing...
> >         I did not catch the ZF in the junkyard, I will have to re-watch, but
> >         that news just cements the whole drive train story as even less
> >         believable now...
> >         Larry Stock sent me an engine photo he took at SEMA, I resized to just
> >         under 1MB so hopefully it will get through to the list. Not great
> >         detail but it looks like the air intake is somewhere down by the
> >         headers, this is one application where using functional side scoops to
> >         draw cold air would actually make sense.
> >         Julian
> >         __________________________________________________________________
> > 
> >         From: Mike Drew < MikeLDrew at aol.com mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com >
> >         Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 8:39 AM
> >         To: Julian Kift < julian_kift at hotmail.com mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com >
> >         Cc: De Tomaso Forum < detomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com >
> >         Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Shelby GT5-S on Discovery Driven - SPOILER
> >         ALERT
> > 
> >         Julian,
> >         Didja notice the fact that the ZF was sitting on a pallet next to the
> >         engine when they `discovered' it? In the junkyard? That makes the
> >         $7500 seem far more reasonable.
> >         It wasn't a NASCAR engine as far as I know--just an ordinary Dodge
> >         motor.
> >         I find the whole story of the engine being taken to a junkyard two
> >         hours away and left for 30 years to be very hard to swallow. When I saw
> >         the car back in 2002, the drivetrain was out of it, but I got the
> >         impression it was lying around somewhere out of sight.
> >         Changing the brakes was wholly unnecessary as stock GT5-S brakes are
> >         terrific (although heavy, but who cares?).
> >         The car was originally built to Amerisport spec, including the drop-tip
> >         wing. They just bought a new one from Kirk, which now comes with a
> >         built-in third brake light. It's an easy mistake to make to assume the
> >         hole spacing of the studs would be the same (why would it change?), and
> >         once the goof was discovered, it was easier to change the car to fit
> >         the part than to change the part to fit the car.
> >         Shelby had at least one or two other turbo Dodge Panteras, one of which
> >         is now owned by Paul Donderwinkle in New Zealand (formerly a London
> >         resident and England's premier De Tomaso service specialist). That one
> >         is a red Euro GTS. Reportedly Shelby used to keep it on his ranch in
> >         Texas, which had a runway, and would entertain guests by taking them
> >         out for high-speed blasts. Driveability of the turbo system was
> >         probably not great but WOT performance was terrific!
> >         Mike
> >         Sent from my iPad
> > 
> >         On Mar 31, 2020, at 07:29, Julian Kift < julian_kift at hotmail.com mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com >
> >         wrote:
> > 
> >         I watched it and the Galpin Auto Sports guys seem to be it bit more
> >         rational than many of the other 'reality tv' auto shows, although they
> >         were previously featured on 'pimp my ride' so that should tell us
> >         something! Yes there were still plenty of scripted cliche's, loosely
> >         based historical facts and false drama.
> >         Now, do I believe they called around local junk yards and miraculously
> >         found the original Shelby test mule engine just sat there on pallet
> >         under a pristine tarp for 30 years? The $7,500 they paid the old guy
> >         was probably more like hush money!
> >         In parts of the show it's all about originality and keeping it the way
> >         Shelby touched it, "hey we can't rebuild the engine as it wouldn't be
> >         original any more" "we had the exact shade of Shelby white matched by
> >         PPG" where they then duly go and bolt up an ugly drop tip delta wing on
> >         the car just crudely re-drilling the decklid after paint and then go
> >         one step further and slap on a Wilwood brake kit.
> >         But I'm sure now it has attained a little more TV fame and has the
> >         "original" engine back where it is supposed to be it will become the
> >         'one of one' most expensive Pantera ever! In what is probably the most
> >         representative part of the related Shelby history "don't let the truth
> >         get int he way of a good story"
> >         Julian
> >         __________________________________________________________________
> > 
> >         From: DeTomaso < detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com > on behalf of
> >         Mike Drew via DeTomaso < detomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com >
> >         Sent: Monday, March 30, 2020 10:44 PM
> >         To: De Tomaso Forum < detomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com >
> >         Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Shelby GT5-S on Discovery at 9 pm tonight
> > 
> >         Spoiler alert: they didn't destroy the car the way the Gas Monkey
> >         Garage monkeys did (twice!)
> >         The finished car looks right. The show had a bunch of stupid scripted
> >         car shows drama, but in general they seemed to do a good job.
> >         It uses a draw-through turbo system but I can't figure out how the air
> >         gets into the engine. It goes through the air cleaner, carb, intake,
> >         turbo, intercooler...and then a miracle happens. How does it get from
> >         the intercooler back into the engine?
> >         They never show the engine clearly so I wasn't able to see.
> >         Mike
> >         Sent from my iPad
> > 
> >             > > >             On Mar 30, 2020, at 18:25, Mike Drew < MikeLDrew at aol.com mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com > wrote:
> > > 
> > >             Too late for anybody but the west coast guys, but tonight at 9 pm on
> > > 
> > >         > >         the discovery channel, the show `Driven' is all about the restoration
> >         of Carroll Shelby's prototype GT5-S Pantera, which was powered from new
> >         by a turbocharged 340 Dodge!
> > 
> >             > > >             I saw the car many years ago, engineless, languishing at the back of
> > > 
> > >         > >         Shelby's Goodyear race tire distributorship in Gardena, CA. At the time
> >         it had almost no miles on it, and was basically brand new, with the
> >         engine bay hacked up to accommodate the Dodge engine. It sold at
> >         auction last year.
> > 
> >             > > >             It should be interesting to see its restoration. I hope they can
> > > 
> > >         > >         avoid all the stupid car restoration show drama and just do a good
> >         job.....
> > 
> >             > > >             Mike
> > > 
> > >             Sent from my iPad
> > > 
> > >         > >         _______________________________________________
> >         Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> >         Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >         DeTomaso mailing list
> >         DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >         [1] http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >         To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> >         use the links above.
> >         Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> >         message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> >         list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> >         or approve the archiving of list messages.
> > 
> >         <Shelby 5S 1-2.jpg>
> > 
> >         References
> > 
> >         1. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >         _______________________________________________
> > 
> > 
> >         Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> >         Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >         DeTomaso mailing list
> >         DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >         http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 
> >         To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> > 
> >         Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> > 
> >     >     _______________________________________________
> 
> 
>     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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> 
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> 
-------------- next part --------------
   PACK-RAT Alert!!!

   Hot Rod Magazine, May 1986, page 79 has a full article on "Carrol's
   Revenge" a twin turbo Mopar 340 Pantera.  I think it's this same car
   but haven't confirmed that. The article includes some track data.

   (The amazing part is I actually found the magazine when I went looking
   for it....)

   FYA

   Jeff/#2467

   On March 31, 2020 at 9:54 AM Mike Drew via DeTomaso <
   [1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:

   Ah yes, there it is!

   I failed to note that when they were running the engine on the engine
   stand it had a conventional intake with the carb sitting on top, but
   when they implemented the turbo setup, the carb moved well aft and the
   intercooler replaced it atop the engine.

   Also, here is a screen grab from the junkyard clearly showing the ZF
   alongside the engine:

   Mike

   Sent from my iPad

   On Mar 31, 2020, at 09:38, Julian Kift < [2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   wrote:

   Mike,

   Yeah, I missed the air filter sat right there front and center, duh!

   Note the carb is sat back almost over the bell housing and not

   connected to the intake manifold, the turbos draw through the carb and

   then blow into the intake manifold via the intercooler.

   Julian

   __________________________________________________________________

   From: Mike Drew < [3]MikeLDrew at aol.com>

   Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 9:17 AM

   To: Julian Kift < [4]julian_kift at hotmail.com>

   Cc: De Tomaso Forum < [5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>

   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Shelby GT5-S on Discovery Driven - SPOILER

   ALERT

   Julian,

   No, the air intake is through the air cleaner sitting on top of the

   carb. It's a draw-through system meaning the turbos suck from below the

   carb instead of pressurizing from above the way a supercharger does.

   But what happens after that is a mystery to me.

   Mike

   Sent from my iPad

   On Mar 31, 2020, at 08:55, Julian Kift < [6]julian_kift at hotmail.com>

   wrote:

   Mike,

   I looked back at the Bonhams auction photos, you are indeed correct it

   came with a fugly drop tip wing...

   I did not catch the ZF in the junkyard, I will have to re-watch, but

   that news just cements the whole drive train story as even less

   believable now...

   Larry Stock sent me an engine photo he took at SEMA, I resized to just

   under 1MB so hopefully it will get through to the list. Not great

   detail but it looks like the air intake is somewhere down by the

   headers, this is one application where using functional side scoops to

   draw cold air would actually make sense.

   Julian

   __________________________________________________________________

   From: Mike Drew < [7]MikeLDrew at aol.com>

   Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 8:39 AM

   To: Julian Kift < [8]julian_kift at hotmail.com>

   Cc: De Tomaso Forum < [9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>

   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Shelby GT5-S on Discovery Driven - SPOILER

   ALERT

   Julian,

   Didja notice the fact that the ZF was sitting on a pallet next to the

   engine when they `discovered' it? In the junkyard? That makes the

   $7500 seem far more reasonable.

   It wasn't a NASCAR engine as far as I know--just an ordinary Dodge

   motor.

   I find the whole story of the engine being taken to a junkyard two

   hours away and left for 30 years to be very hard to swallow. When I saw

   the car back in 2002, the drivetrain was out of it, but I got the

   impression it was lying around somewhere out of sight.

   Changing the brakes was wholly unnecessary as stock GT5-S brakes are

   terrific (although heavy, but who cares?).

   The car was originally built to Amerisport spec, including the drop-tip

   wing. They just bought a new one from Kirk, which now comes with a

   built-in third brake light. It's an easy mistake to make to assume the

   hole spacing of the studs would be the same (why would it change?), and

   once the goof was discovered, it was easier to change the car to fit

   the part than to change the part to fit the car.

   Shelby had at least one or two other turbo Dodge Panteras, one of which

   is now owned by Paul Donderwinkle in New Zealand (formerly a London

   resident and England's premier De Tomaso service specialist). That one

   is a red Euro GTS. Reportedly Shelby used to keep it on his ranch in

   Texas, which had a runway, and would entertain guests by taking them

   out for high-speed blasts. Driveability of the turbo system was

   probably not great but WOT performance was terrific!

   Mike

   Sent from my iPad

   On Mar 31, 2020, at 07:29, Julian Kift < [10]julian_kift at hotmail.com>

   wrote:

   I watched it and the Galpin Auto Sports guys seem to be it bit more

   rational than many of the other 'reality tv' auto shows, although they

   were previously featured on 'pimp my ride' so that should tell us

   something! Yes there were still plenty of scripted cliche's, loosely

   based historical facts and false drama.

   Now, do I believe they called around local junk yards and miraculously

   found the original Shelby test mule engine just sat there on pallet

   under a pristine tarp for 30 years? The $7,500 they paid the old guy

   was probably more like hush money!

   In parts of the show it's all about originality and keeping it the way

   Shelby touched it, "hey we can't rebuild the engine as it wouldn't be

   original any more" "we had the exact shade of Shelby white matched by

   PPG" where they then duly go and bolt up an ugly drop tip delta wing on

   the car just crudely re-drilling the decklid after paint and then go

   one step further and slap on a Wilwood brake kit.

   But I'm sure now it has attained a little more TV fame and has the

   "original" engine back where it is supposed to be it will become the

   'one of one' most expensive Pantera ever! In what is probably the most

   representative part of the related Shelby history "don't let the truth

   get int he way of a good story"

   Julian

   __________________________________________________________________

   From: DeTomaso < [11]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
   behalf of

   Mike Drew via DeTomaso < [12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>

   Sent: Monday, March 30, 2020 10:44 PM

   To: De Tomaso Forum < [13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>

   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Shelby GT5-S on Discovery at 9 pm tonight

   Spoiler alert: they didn't destroy the car the way the Gas Monkey

   Garage monkeys did (twice!)

   The finished car looks right. The show had a bunch of stupid scripted

   car shows drama, but in general they seemed to do a good job.

   It uses a draw-through turbo system but I can't figure out how the air

   gets into the engine. It goes through the air cleaner, carb, intake,

   turbo, intercooler...and then a miracle happens. How does it get from

   the intercooler back into the engine?

   They never show the engine clearly so I wasn't able to see.

   Mike

   Sent from my iPad

   On Mar 30, 2020, at 18:25, Mike Drew < [14]MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:

   Too late for anybody but the west coast guys, but tonight at 9 pm on

   the discovery channel, the show `Driven' is all about the restoration

   of Carroll Shelby's prototype GT5-S Pantera, which was powered from new

   by a turbocharged 340 Dodge!

   I saw the car many years ago, engineless, languishing at the back of

   Shelby's Goodyear race tire distributorship in Gardena, CA. At the time

   it had almost no miles on it, and was basically brand new, with the

   engine bay hacked up to accommodate the Dodge engine. It sold at

   auction last year.

   It should be interesting to see its restoration. I hope they can

   avoid all the stupid car restoration show drama and just do a good

   job.....

   Mike

   Sent from my iPad

   _______________________________________________

   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA

   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes

   DeTomaso mailing list

   [15]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com

   [1] [16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)

   use the links above.

   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any

   message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the

   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive

   or approve the archiving of list messages.

   <Shelby 5S 1-2.jpg>

   References

   1. [17]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

   _______________________________________________

   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA

   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes

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   [19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.

   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list messages.

   _______________________________________________

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   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes

   DeTomaso mailing list

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   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list messages.

References

   1. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   2. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   3. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   4. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   6. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   7. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   8. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  10. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  11. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  12. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  13. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  14. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


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