[DeTomaso] [EXTERNAL] Re: Seatbelts
Himes, Terry (US 397C)
terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
Fri Feb 28 18:31:09 EST 2020
That is awesome!! Definitely ready to hear them
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Deep Space Exploration – Mission Operations
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Juno Systems & Software Team
TGO Sequence Lead
MEX Sequence Lead
Odyssey Sequence Team
Spitzer Space Telescope Data Team
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell: (818) 653-8213
thimes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
[signature_117325739]
From: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
Date: Friday, February 28, 2020 at 12:40 PM
To: Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, Terry Himes <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DeTomaso] Seatbelts
Now there's a story I'd like to hear...
I used to ride my motorcycle down to San Felipe 4-5 times a year to camp on the beach. On one trip my best friend and I had a memorable run-in with the Federales. We were on our way back home, a little south of Tecate, cruising along at about 90 mph or so... We came around a blind bend in the road to find about 15 excited Federales standing in the middle of the road with machine guns gesticulating wildly for us to stop. We couldn't stop fast enough and they scattered and barely missed getting hit as we blew through them trying to bring the bikes to a stop! If we thought they were excited before, they were now in a frenzy... I'll tell the rest of the story over those beers!
Good times to say the least!!!
On Friday, February 28, 2020, 09:09:55 AM PST, Himes, Terry (US 397C) <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
I had the same type of accident. Only it was in my Porsche 944. It had similar seat-belt
configuration. I rolled 3 times over an embankment and landed wheels down. Totally
crushed the car. Lots of head cuts due to flying glass. Black & Blue where the seatbelt
and shoulder harness held me in. This happened in 1998, just north of Rosarito, Mexico.
You can imagine what happened after the car came to rest and the Federales showed up.
Definitely a 3 beer story. I should write a book. ;-/
Terry
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Deep Space Exploration – Mission Operations
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Juno Systems & Software Team
TGO Sequence Lead
MEX Sequence Lead
Odyssey Sequence Team
Spitzer Space Telescope Data Team
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell: (818) 653-8213
thimes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
On 2/28/20, 8:59 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso" <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>> wrote:
My recollection is the force of the tumbling threw his body sideways to the right, bending him over the center console which broke his ribs and punctured his right lung. But I believe the belt held?
Art Stephens is his name. He almost immediately bought another Pantera, but I haven’t seen nor heard from him in years?
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 28, 2020, at 08:53, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>> wrote:
>
> My recollection that the driver said the shoulder strap released
> (broke?) and did not hold him erect, which may have saved him.
> Ken
>
> On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 10:39:31 PM PST, Garth Rodericks via
> DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>> wrote:
> The "day before pics" are from Concorso, but they're not the day
> before. The accident occurred following the Fun Rally in Las Vegas.
> But, you can see what a beautiful car it was.
> On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 04:56:44 PM PST, Garth Rodericks
> <[1]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com<mailto:garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>> wrote:
> Attached are few couple pics of "hearsay 1" - a couple from the day
> before at Concorso I believe, then the day after... You'd never know
> it's the same car.
> Although I heard it reported that the section of highway had some
> rolling dips so to speak, which would unload the suspension; there
> was
> also a cross-wind, so the car got blown right off the road when the
> suspension unloaded at the super-illegal speeds.
> The owner was quite fortunate. Injuries were more than a broken
> wrist
> and concussion, but not what you would expect after seeing the car.
> Arguably, he would not have survived if he had a 4- or 5-point race
> harness since the car had no roll-bar or cage. The stock 3-point
> harness allowed his body to get pushed over to the right as the roof
> was collapsed onto the seatback.
> Something to think about before putting racing harnesses in car
> that's
> not equipped with a cage.
> ---- original message ----
> Glad to see Steve and Julian's comments on the stock 3-point, which I
> prefer for
> our mostly- street use. I note that in the serious crashes I've heard
> about, th
> e stock system protects well. Sure- it's possible to get killed but
> this apparen
> tly doesn't happen often.
> Hear-say #1: A few years ago, a So-Cal owner (apparently) blew a tire
> at a verif
> ied-by-GPS 187mph on a deserted Nevada highway while 'testing' a new
> high-horse
> engine. The car rolled & somersaulted end-over end several times. Front
> of the r
> oof was bent almost level with the hood while the rear half- with him
> inside- wa
> s at almost stock height. Speedo was torn out of the badly damaged
> dashboard. He
> got a broken wrist & slight concussion. Stock belts.
> Hear-say #2 happened on a convoy to 'Vegas; the last car in the group
> passing a
> pickup on a 2-lane CA country road did "something" that caused the car
> to go off
> the road and barrel-rolled, completely clearing a std barbed wire fence
> to land
> wheels-up in a field. Driver & passenger were reportedly shaken but
> unhurt. Sto
> ck belts.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Lisa <[1]stevelisa at patentit.com>
> To: Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Cc; Detomaso List <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Thu, Feb 27, 2020 8:37 am
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Seatbelts
> My two cents:A Julian is absolutely right.A A
> In addition to our racecars, we have severalA "track day" cars.A My
> son is a technical inspector for NASA, and both he and I have
> instructed.A 90% of theA "track day" people have their race
> harnesses
> installed incorrectly, and even my Dodge Viper ACR "track day" car
> has
> the cutoutsA in the seat and harness bar too high and it fails to
> hold
> you down in the seat.A They are so high that they render a HANS
> device
> useless.A So, even though the ACR comes from Dodge with both the
> three
> point system and full harnesses, we prefer the three pointA belts and
> adjust them tightly if all we are doing is a track day.A A NASA
> allows
> you use the three point system during their TT competition events -
> indeed mandates it if your harness bar is not designed strictly in
> accordance with the rules.A
> That said, a properly designed and placed harness bar with a
> well-matched seat is safer.A But, you need to make sure it is
> designed
> correctly and worn properly.A A
> Regards,A
> Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
> The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
> Email: [4]SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
> Direct: 480-442-0297
> [1]www.PatentIt.com
> Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
> |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
> Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A |A F: 312.896.5633A |A A: 55
> E.
> Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
> This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
> confidential and privileged information. If you received this email
> in
> error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me.
> Thank
> you.
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:00 AM Julian Kift
> <[2][5]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
> A A Corey,
> A A Be sure to get a 5 or 6 point harness and not settle fora 4
> point that
> A A doesn't have the submarine belt. Anchoring for a 5 point isn't
> ideal in
> A A the Pantera and much easier if you have a seat with the cut
> out
> for the
> A A submarine belt.
> A A I switched from 5 point back to a simple 3 point stock style
> seat belt
> A A last summer and really happy with my choice. My reasons were
> 1.) I'm
> A A long legged and with the 5 point harness properly adjusted I
> could not
> A A reach the ignition switch 2. It's a PITA if you take different
> A A passengers frequently to constantly adjust the harness 3.)
> Unless you
> A A seat is relatively low back or has the cutouts for shoulder
> belts the
> A A harness bar does not place the shoulder straps in a great
> position,
> A A especially if they have to 'wrap' around the outside edge of
> the seat.
> A A 4.) Most everyday folks do not adjust a harness properly to be
> any real
> A A effect in an accident, it really does need to be cinched down
> to the
> A A point your body movements are restricted. 5). The harness bar
> really
> A A needs additional intermediate anchoring over the the two bolts
> at the
> A A ends to be safe.
> A A I would assess your track use frequency and consider
> installing
> the
> A A harness bar and appropriate seat for each track event and use
> a
> street
> A A system for the street.
> A A Julian
> A A
> A A > On Feb 26, 2020, at 11:42, Corey Price
> <[9][6]coreyjprice at gmail.com> wrote:
> A A >
> A A > I don't have seatbelts currently. I have Recaro seats and I
> plan to
> A A take the Pantera to the track occasionally, but mostly drive
> it
> on the
> A A street. I'm looking for seatbelt recommendations.
> A A >
> A A > Corey
> A A > ______________________________________________
> DeTomaso Info Page
> References
> Visible links
> 1. [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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-------------- next part --------------
That is awesome!! Definitely ready to hear them
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Deep Space Exploration - Mission Operations
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Juno Systems & Software Team
TGO Sequence Lead
MEX Sequence Lead
Odyssey Sequence Team
Spitzer Space Telescope Data Team
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell: (818) 653-8213
[1]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
signature_117325739
From: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
Date: Friday, February 28, 2020 at 12:40 PM
To: Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>,
Terry Himes <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DeTomaso] Seatbelts
Now there's a story I'd like to hear...
I used to ride my motorcycle down to San Felipe 4-5 times a year to
camp on the beach. On one trip my best friend and I had a memorable
run-in with the Federales. We were on our way back home, a little
south of Tecate, cruising along at about 90 mph or so... We came
around a blind bend in the road to find about 15 excited Federales
standing in the middle of the road with machine guns gesticulating
wildly for us to stop. We couldn't stop fast enough and they scattered
and barely missed getting hit as we blew through them trying to bring
the bikes to a stop! If we thought they were excited before, they were
now in a frenzy... I'll tell the rest of the story over those beers!
Good times to say the least!!!
On Friday, February 28, 2020, 09:09:55 AM PST, Himes, Terry (US 397C)
<terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
I had the same type of accident. Only it was in my Porsche 944. It had
similar seat-belt
configuration. I rolled 3 times over an embankment and landed wheels
down. Totally
crushed the car. Lots of head cuts due to flying glass. Black & Blue
where the seatbelt
and shoulder harness held me in. This happened in 1998, just north of
Rosarito, Mexico.
You can imagine what happened after the car came to rest and the
Federales showed up.
Definitely a 3 beer story. I should write a book. ;-/
Terry
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Deep Space Exploration - Mission Operations
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Juno Systems & Software Team
TGO Sequence Lead
MEX Sequence Lead
Odyssey Sequence Team
Spitzer Space Telescope Data Team
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell: (818) 653-8213
[2]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
On 2/28/20, 8:59 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso"
<[3]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
[4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
My recollection is the force of the tumbling threw his body
sideways to the right, bending him over the center console which broke
his ribs and punctured his right lung. But I believe the belt held?
Art Stephens is his name. He almost immediately bought another
Pantera, but I haven't seen nor heard from him in years?
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 28, 2020, at 08:53, Ken Green via DeTomaso
<[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
> My recollection that the driver said the shoulder strap
released
> (broke?) and did not hold him erect, which may have saved him.
> Ken
>
> On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 10:39:31 PM PST, Garth Rodericks
via
> DeTomaso <[6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> The "day before pics" are from Concorso, but they're not the
day
> before. The accident occurred following the Fun Rally in Las
Vegas.
> But, you can see what a beautiful car it was.
> On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 04:56:44 PM PST, Garth
Rodericks
> <[1][7]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Attached are few couple pics of "hearsay 1" - a couple from
the day
> before at Concorso I believe, then the day after... You'd
never know
> it's the same car.
> Although I heard it reported that the section of highway had
some
> rolling dips so to speak, which would unload the suspension;
there
> was
> also a cross-wind, so the car got blown right off the road
when the
> suspension unloaded at the super-illegal speeds.
> The owner was quite fortunate. Injuries were more than a
broken
> wrist
> and concussion, but not what you would expect after seeing the
car.
> Arguably, he would not have survived if he had a 4- or 5-point
race
> harness since the car had no roll-bar or cage. The stock
3-point
> harness allowed his body to get pushed over to the right as
the roof
> was collapsed onto the seatback.
> Something to think about before putting racing harnesses in
car
> that's
> not equipped with a cage.
> ---- original message ----
> Glad to see Steve and Julian's comments on the stock 3-point,
which I
> prefer for
> our mostly- street use. I note that in the serious crashes I've
heard
> about, th
> e stock system protects well. Sure- it's possible to get killed
but
> this apparen
> tly doesn't happen often.
> Hear-say #1: A few years ago, a So-Cal owner (apparently) blew a
tire
> at a verif
> ied-by-GPS 187mph on a deserted Nevada highway while 'testing' a
new
> high-horse
> engine. The car rolled & somersaulted end-over end several
times. Front
> of the r
> oof was bent almost level with the hood while the rear half-
with him
> inside- wa
> s at almost stock height. Speedo was torn out of the badly
damaged
> dashboard. He
> got a broken wrist & slight concussion. Stock belts.
> Hear-say #2 happened on a convoy to 'Vegas; the last car in the
group
> passing a
> pickup on a 2-lane CA country road did "something" that caused
the car
> to go off
> the road and barrel-rolled, completely clearing a std barbed
wire fence
> to land
> wheels-up in a field. Driver & passenger were reportedly shaken
but
> unhurt. Sto
> ck belts.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Lisa <[1]stevelisa at patentit.com>
> To: Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Cc; Detomaso List <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Thu, Feb 27, 2020 8:37 am
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Seatbelts
> My two cents:A Julian is absolutely right.A A
> In addition to our racecars, we have severalA "track day"
cars.A My
> son is a technical inspector for NASA, and both he and I have
> instructed.A 90% of theA "track day" people have their race
> harnesses
> installed incorrectly, and even my Dodge Viper ACR "track day"
car
> has
> the cutoutsA in the seat and harness bar too high and it fails
to
> hold
> you down in the seat.A They are so high that they render a
HANS
> device
> useless.A So, even though the ACR comes from Dodge with both
the
> three
> point system and full harnesses, we prefer the three pointA
belts and
> adjust them tightly if all we are doing is a track day.A A
NASA
> allows
> you use the three point system during their TT competition
events -
> indeed mandates it if your harness bar is not designed
strictly in
> accordance with the rules.A
> That said, a properly designed and placed harness bar with a
> well-matched seat is safer.A But, you need to make sure it is
> designed
> correctly and worn properly.A A
> Regards,A
> Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
> The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
> Email: [4]SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
> Direct: 480-442-0297
> [1]www.PatentIt.com
> Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A
480.535.6628A
> |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ
85260
> Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A |A F: 312.896.5633A |A
A: 55
> E.
> Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
> This email is intended only for the recipient above and may
contain
> confidential and privileged information. If you received this
email
> in
> error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to
me.
> Thank
> you.
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:00 AM Julian Kift
> <[2][5]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
> A A Corey,
> A A Be sure to get a 5 or 6 point harness and not settle
fora 4
> point that
> A A doesn't have the submarine belt. Anchoring for a 5
point isn't
> ideal in
> A A the Pantera and much easier if you have a seat with the
cut
> out
> for the
> A A submarine belt.
> A A I switched from 5 point back to a simple 3 point stock
style
> seat belt
> A A last summer and really happy with my choice. My reasons
were
> 1.) I'm
> A A long legged and with the 5 point harness properly
adjusted I
> could not
> A A reach the ignition switch 2. It's a PITA if you take
different
> A A passengers frequently to constantly adjust the harness
3.)
> Unless you
> A A seat is relatively low back or has the cutouts for
shoulder
> belts the
> A A harness bar does not place the shoulder straps in a
great
> position,
> A A especially if they have to 'wrap' around the outside
edge of
> the seat.
> A A 4.) Most everyday folks do not adjust a harness
properly to be
> any real
> A A effect in an accident, it really does need to be
cinched down
> to the
> A A point your body movements are restricted. 5). The
harness bar
> really
> A A needs additional intermediate anchoring over the the
two bolts
> at the
> A A ends to be safe.
> A A I would assess your track use frequency and consider
> installing
> the
> A A harness bar and appropriate seat for each track event
and use
> a
> street
> A A system for the street.
> A A Julian
> A A
> A A > On Feb 26, 2020, at 11:42, Corey Price
> <[9][6]coreyjprice at gmail.com> wrote:
> A A >
> A A > I don't have seatbelts currently. I have Recaro seats
and I
> plan to
> A A take the Pantera to the track occasionally, but mostly
drive
> it
> on the
> A A street. I'm looking for seatbelt recommendations.
> A A >
> A A > Corey
> A A > ______________________________________________
> DeTomaso Info Page
> References
> Visible links
> 1.
[2][8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 2.
[3][9]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
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> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[17]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
> 2. [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
29. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
30. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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