[DeTomaso] Seatbelts
Garth Rodericks
garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
Fri Feb 28 01:39:09 EST 2020
The "day before pics" are from Concorso, but they're not the day before. The accident occurred following the Fun Rally in Las Vegas. But, you can see what a beautiful car it was.
On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 04:56:44 PM PST, Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com> wrote:
Attached are few couple pics of "hearsay 1" - a couple from the day before at Concorso I believe, then the day after... You'd never know it's the same car.
Although I heard it reported that the section of highway had some rolling dips so to speak, which would unload the suspension; there was also a cross-wind, so the car got blown right off the road when the suspension unloaded at the super-illegal speeds.
The owner was quite fortunate. Injuries were more than a broken wrist and concussion, but not what you would expect after seeing the car. Arguably, he would not have survived if he had a 4- or 5-point race harness since the car had no roll-bar or cage. The stock 3-point harness allowed his body to get pushed over to the right as the roof was collapsed onto the seatback.
Something to think about before putting racing harnesses in car that's not equipped with a cage.
---- original message ----Glad to see Steve and Julian's comments on the stock 3-point, which I prefer for our mostly- street use. I note that in the serious crashes I've heard about, the stock system protects well. Sure- it's possible to get killed but this apparently doesn't happen often.
Hear-say #1: A few years ago, a So-Cal owner (apparently) blew a tire at a verified-by-GPS 187mph on a deserted Nevada highway while 'testing' a new high-horse engine. The car rolled & somersaulted end-over end several times. Front of the roof was bent almost level with the hood while the rear half- with him inside- was at almost stock height. Speedo was torn out of the badly damaged dashboard. He got a broken wrist & slight concussion. Stock belts.
Hear-say #2 happened on a convoy to 'Vegas; the last car in the group passing a pickup on a 2-lane CA country road did "something" that caused the car to go off the road and barrel-rolled, completely clearing a std barbed wire fence to land wheels-up in a field. Driver & passenger were reportedly shaken but unhurt. Stock belts.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com>
To: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Cc; Detomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 27, 2020 8:37 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Seatbelts
My two cents:A Julian is absolutely right.A A
In addition to our racecars, we have severalA "track day" cars.A My
son is a technical inspector for NASA, and both he and I have
instructed.A 90% of theA "track day" people have their race harnesses
installed incorrectly, and even my Dodge Viper ACR "track day" car has
the cutoutsA in the seat and harness bar too high and it fails to hold
you down in the seat.A They are so high that they render a HANS device
useless.A So, even though the ACR comes from Dodge with both the three
point system and full harnesses, we prefer the three pointA belts and
adjust them tightly if all we are doing is a track day.A A NASA allows
you use the three point system during their TT competition events -
indeed mandates it if your harness bar is not designed strictly in
accordance with the rules.A
That said, a properly designed and placed harness bar with a
well-matched seat is safer.A But, you need to make sure it is designed
correctly and worn properly.A A
Regards,A
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
Direct: 480-442-0297
[1]www.PatentIt.com
Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
|A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A |A F: 312.896.5633A |A A: 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
you.
On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:00 AM Julian Kift
<[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
A A Corey,
A A Be sure to get a 5 or 6 point harness and not settle fora 4
point that
A A doesn't have the submarine belt. Anchoring for a 5 point isn't
ideal in
A A the Pantera and much easier if you have a seat with the cut out
for the
A A submarine belt.
A A I switched from 5 point back to a simple 3 point stock style
seat belt
A A last summer and really happy with my choice. My reasons were
1.) I'm
A A long legged and with the 5 point harness properly adjusted I
could not
A A reach the ignition switch 2. It's a PITA if you take different
A A passengers frequently to constantly adjust the harness 3.)
Unless you
A A seat is relatively low back or has the cutouts for shoulder
belts the
A A harness bar does not place the shoulder straps in a great
position,
A A especially if they have to 'wrap' around the outside edge of
the seat.
A A 4.) Most everyday folks do not adjust a harness properly to be
any real
A A effect in an accident, it really does need to be cinched down
to the
A A point your body movements are restricted. 5). The harness bar
really
A A needs additional intermediate anchoring over the the two bolts
at the
A A ends to be safe.
A A I would assess your track use frequency and consider installing
the
A A harness bar and appropriate seat for each track event and use a
street
A A system for the street.
A A Julian
A A
A A > On Feb 26, 2020, at 11:42, Corey Price
<[9]coreyjprice at gmail.com> wrote:
A A >
A A > I don't have seatbelts currently. I have Recaro seats and I
plan to
A A take the Pantera to the track occasionally, but mostly drive it
on the
A A street. I'm looking for seatbelt recommendations.
A A >
A A > Corey
A A > ______________________________________________
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-------------- next part --------------
The "day before pics" are from Concorso, but they're not the day
before. The accident occurred following the Fun Rally in Las Vegas.
But, you can see what a beautiful car it was.
On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 04:56:44 PM PST, Garth Rodericks
<garth_rodericks at yahoo.com> wrote:
Attached are few couple pics of "hearsay 1" - a couple from the day
before at Concorso I believe, then the day after... You'd never know
it's the same car.
Although I heard it reported that the section of highway had some
rolling dips so to speak, which would unload the suspension; there was
also a cross-wind, so the car got blown right off the road when the
suspension unloaded at the super-illegal speeds.
The owner was quite fortunate. Injuries were more than a broken wrist
and concussion, but not what you would expect after seeing the car.
Arguably, he would not have survived if he had a 4- or 5-point race
harness since the car had no roll-bar or cage. The stock 3-point
harness allowed his body to get pushed over to the right as the roof
was collapsed onto the seatback.
Something to think about before putting racing harnesses in car that's
not equipped with a cage.
---- original message ----
Glad to see Steve and Julian's comments on the stock 3-point, which I prefer for
our mostly- street use. I note that in the serious crashes I've heard about, th
e stock system protects well. Sure- it's possible to get killed but this apparen
tly doesn't happen often.
Hear-say #1: A few years ago, a So-Cal owner (apparently) blew a tire at a verif
ied-by-GPS 187mph on a deserted Nevada highway while 'testing' a new high-horse
engine. The car rolled & somersaulted end-over end several times. Front of the r
oof was bent almost level with the hood while the rear half- with him inside- wa
s at almost stock height. Speedo was torn out of the badly damaged dashboard. He
got a broken wrist & slight concussion. Stock belts.
Hear-say #2 happened on a convoy to 'Vegas; the last car in the group passing a
pickup on a 2-lane CA country road did "something" that caused the car to go off
the road and barrel-rolled, completely clearing a std barbed wire fence to land
wheels-up in a field. Driver & passenger were reportedly shaken but unhurt. Sto
ck belts.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Lisa <[1]stevelisa at patentit.com>
To: Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Cc; Detomaso List <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 27, 2020 8:37 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Seatbelts
My two cents:A Julian is absolutely right.A A
In addition to our racecars, we have severalA "track day" cars.A My
son is a technical inspector for NASA, and both he and I have
instructed.A 90% of theA "track day" people have their race harnesses
installed incorrectly, and even my Dodge Viper ACR "track day" car has
the cutoutsA in the seat and harness bar too high and it fails to hold
you down in the seat.A They are so high that they render a HANS device
useless.A So, even though the ACR comes from Dodge with both the three
point system and full harnesses, we prefer the three pointA belts and
adjust them tightly if all we are doing is a track day.A A NASA allows
you use the three point system during their TT competition events -
indeed mandates it if your harness bar is not designed strictly in
accordance with the rules.A
That said, a properly designed and placed harness bar with a
well-matched seat is safer.A But, you need to make sure it is designed
correctly and worn properly.A A
Regards,A
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
Email: [4]SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
Direct: 480-442-0297
[1]www.PatentIt.com
Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
|A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A |A F: 312.896.5633A |A A: 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
you.
On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:00 AM Julian Kift
<[2][5]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
A A Corey,
A A Be sure to get a 5 or 6 point harness and not settle fora 4
point that
A A doesn't have the submarine belt. Anchoring for a 5 point isn't
ideal in
A A the Pantera and much easier if you have a seat with the cut out
for the
A A submarine belt.
A A I switched from 5 point back to a simple 3 point stock style
seat belt
A A last summer and really happy with my choice. My reasons were
1.) I'm
A A long legged and with the 5 point harness properly adjusted I
could not
A A reach the ignition switch 2. It's a PITA if you take different
A A passengers frequently to constantly adjust the harness 3.)
Unless you
A A seat is relatively low back or has the cutouts for shoulder
belts the
A A harness bar does not place the shoulder straps in a great
position,
A A especially if they have to 'wrap' around the outside edge of
the seat.
A A 4.) Most everyday folks do not adjust a harness properly to be
any real
A A effect in an accident, it really does need to be cinched down
to the
A A point your body movements are restricted. 5). The harness bar
really
A A needs additional intermediate anchoring over the the two bolts
at the
A A ends to be safe.
A A I would assess your track use frequency and consider installing
the
A A harness bar and appropriate seat for each track event and use a
street
A A system for the street.
A A Julian
A A
A A > On Feb 26, 2020, at 11:42, Corey Price
<[9][6]coreyjprice at gmail.com> wrote:
A A >
A A > I don't have seatbelts currently. I have Recaro seats and I
plan to
A A take the Pantera to the track occasionally, but mostly drive it
on the
A A street. I'm looking for seatbelt recommendations.
A A >
A A > Corey
A A > ______________________________________________
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