[DeTomaso] Difficulty starting the Pantera... PROBLEM SOLVED!

Wed Aug 26 21:20:01 EDT 2020

Good work figuring this out. Reminds me of the time I was out of the country playing airplanes with the US Navy and Judy took my car for an errand. It wouldn't start on her way home from the store. I was running Mallory's early CD ignition called 'Opto-Electronic' that use a tiny light bulb and a rotor with slots in it. A photocell picked up the light flash & a microprocessor used that to trigger the coil. The shop that tried to help her found the bulb burned out but didn't have a clue how the Mallory system worked. So they jury-rigged my  special spare bulb ($10 each only from Mallory) to direct 12V off the coil and instantly burned that one out, too. Took me awhile to debug their 'fix' once I returned to the US and an unhappy wife. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Garth Rodericks via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2020 4:51 pm
Subject: [DeTomaso] Difficulty starting the Pantera... PROBLEM SOLVED!

  UPDATE...
  THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED!!!
  First of all, thank you to everyone who shared suggestions and ideas on
  what to check.
  It turns out that the local AC shop who installed my new AC compressor
  CHANGED the wiring to my starter solenoid!!!  :(
  It seems that after they installed my new AC compressor, they couldn't
  get the car started. They told me that the vacuum line to the EIS
  controller/box was ruptured or torn (they must have done it because
  there were no problems before I took it to them), so they cut off the
  ruptured section and all was good they said. However, the vacuum line
  is for the A/C compressor control electronics within the EIS, so I
  doubt that had anything to do with causing the car not to start.
  Anyway, the shop failed to tell me everything else they must have tried
  to get the car started BEFORE they discovered the "ruptured vacuum
  line."
  I have a PMGR mini hi-torque starter (from DB Electrical) which
  requires that the starter lead be moved to the battery/input side of
  the solenoid, and a new 12 ga. trigger wire be added at the output side
  of the solenoid and run to the starter.  The Pantera Electronics EIS
  has a safety feature which disables the ignition in the event of a
  sudden loss of oil pressure.
  Inline image
  The idiots at the AC shop moved all the wiring connections to the
  output side of the starter solenoid, effectively bypassing the OEM
  solenoid in favor of the PMGR starter's integral solenoid.  However,
  the EIS has a wire lead that connects to the 'S' post on the OEM
  solenoid in the attached illustration which triggers a time delay for
  the oil pressure safety feature.  By moving the wiring and bypassing
  the OEM solenoid the EIS failed to receive a signal to trigger the time
  delay on the ignition cut-off safety feature.  Therefore, the car would
  not start. Sometimes the car would start, but I suspect it was only
  after cranking enough to build up sufficient oil pressure. And it would
  start with the battery booster or a jump-start, but again only after a
  lot of cranking, so again, it probably built up sufficient oil pressure
  to allow the ignition to trigger.
  I returned the solenoid wiring to the correct orientation on Sunday
  night, and the car has started without hesitation or issue every time
  since!  And I've been driving it daily to make sure there's no more
  problem.
  Anyway, thanks for all the help and suggestions!
  Cheers!
  Garth
_______________________________________________

Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.

Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
   Good work figuring this out. Reminds me of the time I was out of the
   country playing airplanes with the US Navy and Judy took my car for an
   errand. It wouldn't start on her way home from the store. I was running
   Mallory's early CD ignition called 'Opto-Electronic' that use a tiny
   light bulb and a rotor with slots in it. A photocell picked up the
   light flash & a microprocessor used that to trigger the coil. The shop
   that tried to help her found the bulb burned out but didn't have a clue
   how the Mallory system worked. So they jury-rigged my  special spare
   bulb ($10 each only from Mallory) to direct 12V off the coil and
   instantly burned that one out, too. Took me awhile to debug their 'fix'
   once I returned to the US and an unhappy wife.
   -----Original Message-----
   From: Garth Rodericks via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   To: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2020 4:51 pm
   Subject: [DeTomaso] Difficulty starting the Pantera... PROBLEM SOLVED!
     UPDATE...
     THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED!!!
     First of all, thank you to everyone who shared suggestions and ideas
   on
     what to check.
     It turns out that the local AC shop who installed my new AC
   compressor
     CHANGED the wiring to my starter solenoid!!!  :(
     It seems that after they installed my new AC compressor, they
   couldn't
     get the car started. They told me that the vacuum line to the EIS
     controller/box was ruptured or torn (they must have done it because
     there were no problems before I took it to them), so they cut off the
     ruptured section and all was good they said. However, the vacuum line
     is for the A/C compressor control electronics within the EIS, so I
     doubt that had anything to do with causing the car not to start.
     Anyway, the shop failed to tell me everything else they must have
   tried
     to get the car started BEFORE they discovered the "ruptured vacuum
     line."
     I have a PMGR mini hi-torque starter (from DB Electrical) which
     requires that the starter lead be moved to the battery/input side of
     the solenoid, and a new 12 ga. trigger wire be added at the output
   side
     of the solenoid and run to the starter.  The Pantera Electronics EIS
     has a safety feature which disables the ignition in the event of a
     sudden loss of oil pressure.
     Inline image
     The idiots at the AC shop moved all the wiring connections to the
     output side of the starter solenoid, effectively bypassing the OEM
     solenoid in favor of the PMGR starter's integral solenoid.  However,
     the EIS has a wire lead that connects to the 'S' post on the OEM
     solenoid in the attached illustration which triggers a time delay for
     the oil pressure safety feature.  By moving the wiring and bypassing
     the OEM solenoid the EIS failed to receive a signal to trigger the
   time
     delay on the ignition cut-off safety feature.  Therefore, the car
   would
     not start. Sometimes the car would start, but I suspect it was only
     after cranking enough to build up sufficient oil pressure. And it
   would
     start with the battery booster or a jump-start, but again only after
   a
     lot of cranking, so again, it probably built up sufficient oil
   pressure
     to allow the ignition to trigger.
     I returned the solenoid wiring to the correct orientation on Sunday
     night, and the car has started without hesitation or issue every time
     since!  And I've been driving it daily to make sure there's no more
     problem.
     Anyway, thanks for all the help and suggestions!
     Cheers!
     Garth
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [1]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list messages.

References

   1. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso