[DeTomaso] campys
Mike Drew
MikeLDrew at aol.com
Fri Apr 17 11:31:24 EDT 2020
Marshall,
Yeah...no.
I have seen one case where a car built during a transition period fall 73) had first-style L-model wheels in the front and second-style in the rear. That’s a reasonable assumption that it came that way and there were probably others.
But the car I saw yesterday, an early car that had wheels all made many months or years after it was built? The only possible explanation supporting your theory would be that they built the car in Dec 71 and pushed it aside, then in July 72 put one wheel on it and pushed it aside again, then in July 73 put three more wheels on it, and sold it.
Does that sound likely to you?
Or how about this? In 1973 when it’s two years old, the current owner decides to put a set of ‘cool’ aftermarket wheels on it and gets rid of the original wheels. Then later on, he or a subsequent owner decides he wants original wheels, and finds and buys four wheels not noticing that one is different from the other three, and that some are L-model wheels.
Does that sound slightly more likely? :)
Usually I will see a car with three period-correct wheels and one mismatched, often a front. To me that indicates a wheel was likely damaged at some point (curb or pothole) and the owner bought a replacement (likely from his Lincoln-Mercury dealer if the car was young) and got a mismatched wheel, since the parts system treated them all the same. Pantera parts vendors typically only differentiate between 7-inch and 8-inch and if you buy multiple wheels you will likely get multiple styles from them too.
Same thing for pre-L bumpers. It’s not unusual to find an early square-bumper car with round bumpers in one end (or sometimes one on each side on one end). Usually there is bondo underneath the mismatched bumper, evidence of a shunt. People fixing these things often didn’t notice the subtle differences.
Kirby Schrader’s car has two different rear square-edged bumpers, as they were built differently and have more or less ‘wrap’ around the sides of the body. That is the first time I noticed there was a difference in those bunker styles—and he had never noticed his didn’t match either!
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 17, 2020, at 08:12, marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> Great point Julian! There are just too many mismatched sets on people's cars to indicate otherwise. And we all know the quality control that DeTomaso is known for.
>
> Marshall
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Date: 4/17/20 6:54 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, Scott Couchman <scottcouchman at yahoo.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] campys
>
> With such subtle differences what's the chance many of these car actually left the factory with mismatched wheels? Realistically how many owners would switch out wheels or have another set or different spare to mix up?
>
> If that is the case should one just accept this as another small idiosyncrasy of the Pantera and live with it, the car is only original once!
>
> Julian
> ________________________________
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 6:08 PM
> To: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] campys
>
> Mike is so right. My car had three wheels that matched and one didn’t. I was sure I knew what wheel to buy so they would all match. I bought a fifth wheel and when I got it home realized it doesn’t match any of my existing wheels. Look very closely, the differences can be subtle....and for me, confusing. Mike wrote a great reference article that explains the differences, and Jack DeRyke had a great article in this month’s newsletter on the 10”campy. Thanks to both of you!
>
> > On Apr 16, 2020, at 5:42 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > What kind of Campagnolo wheels? Remember there were four different styles of two-slot wheels between 1971-74, plus one-slot wheels, and ultra rare three-slot wheels only used on prototypes.
> >
> > I just worked on a Jan ‘72 car today that had three 1973 L-model wheels and a 1972 late Pre-L wheel. Lots of people have mismatched wheels and don’t even realize it (this guy owned the car 29 years and had never noticed).
> >
> > So. Details please, including good pics of all four wheels. If it’s a genuine set, rather than four mismatched wheels, that’s obviously better. Values have been going up in recent years as people are finally realizing the benefits of stock wheels and returning cars to stock appearance.
> >
> > Miie
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On Apr 16, 2020, at 12:30, Robert Levitt via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Would like to sell original set of CAMPYS .
> >> Anyone interested ?
> >> Contact
> >> Bob
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> >>
> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
Marshall,
Yeah...no.
I have seen one case where a car built during a transition period fall
73) had first-style L-model wheels in the front and second-style in the
rear. That's a reasonable assumption that it came that way and there
were probably others.
But the car I saw yesterday, an early car that had wheels all made many
months or years after it was built? The only possible explanation
supporting your theory would be that they built the car in Dec 71 and
pushed it aside, then in July 72 put one wheel on it and pushed it
aside again, then in July 73 put three more wheels on it, and sold it.
Does that sound likely to you?
Or how about this? In 1973 when it's two years old, the current owner
decides to put a set of `cool' aftermarket wheels on it and gets rid of
the original wheels. Then later on, he or a subsequent owner decides he
wants original wheels, and finds and buys four wheels not noticing that
one is different from the other three, and that some are L-model
wheels.
Does that sound slightly more likely? :)
Usually I will see a car with three period-correct wheels and one
mismatched, often a front. To me that indicates a wheel was likely
damaged at some point (curb or pothole) and the owner bought a
replacement (likely from his Lincoln-Mercury dealer if the car was
young) and got a mismatched wheel, since the parts system treated them
all the same. Pantera parts vendors typically only differentiate
between 7-inch and 8-inch and if you buy multiple wheels you will
likely get multiple styles from them too.
Same thing for pre-L bumpers. It's not unusual to find an early
square-bumper car with round bumpers in one end (or sometimes one on
each side on one end). Usually there is bondo underneath the mismatched
bumper, evidence of a shunt. People fixing these things often didn't
notice the subtle differences.
Kirby Schrader's car has two different rear square-edged bumpers, as
they were built differently and have more or less `wrap' around the
sides of the body. That is the first time I noticed there was a
difference in those bunker styles--and he had never noticed his didn't
match either!
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 17, 2020, at 08:12, marshallgsmith
<marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Great point Julian! There are just too many mismatched sets on people's
cars to indicate otherwise. And we all know the quality control that
DeTomaso is known for.
Marshall
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Date: 4/17/20 6:54 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, Scott Couchman
<scottcouchman at yahoo.com>
Cc: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] campys
With such subtle differences what's the chance many of these car
actually left the factory with mismatched wheels? Realistically how
many owners would switch out wheels or have another set or different
spare to mix up?
If that is the case should one just accept this as another small
idiosyncrasy of the Pantera and live with it, the car is only
original once!
Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
of Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 6:08 PM
To: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] campys
Mike is so right. My car had three wheels that matched and one
didn't. I was sure I knew what wheel to buy so they would all match.
I bought a fifth wheel and when I got it home realized it doesn't
match any of my existing wheels. Look very closely, the differences
can be subtle....and for me, confusing. Mike wrote a great reference
article that explains the differences, and Jack DeRyke had a great
article in this month's newsletter on the 10"campy. Thanks to both
of you!
> On Apr 16, 2020, at 5:42 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> What kind of Campagnolo wheels? Remember there were four different
styles of two-slot wheels between 1971-74, plus one-slot wheels, and
ultra rare three-slot wheels only used on prototypes.
>
> I just worked on a Jan `72 car today that had three 1973 L-model
wheels and a 1972 late Pre-L wheel. Lots of people have mismatched
wheels and don't even realize it (this guy owned the car 29 years
and had never noticed).
>
> So. Details please, including good pics of all four wheels. If
it's a genuine set, rather than four mismatched wheels, that's
obviously better. Values have been going up in recent years as
people are finally realizing the benefits of stock wheels and
returning cars to stock appearance.
>
> Miie
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 16, 2020, at 12:30, Robert Levitt via DeTomaso
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>
>> Would like to sell original set of CAMPYS .
>> Anyone interested ?
>> Contact
>> Bob
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future
members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
More information about the DeTomaso
mailing list