[DeTomaso] Poly vs. Rubber suspension bushings
jderyke at aol.com
jderyke at aol.com
Fri Apr 10 15:59:29 EDT 2020
Correct as far as I know. Besides cornering benefits, -4.5 degrees of caster is about all anyone without power steering can handle, at least in low speed traffic & parking lots. Out on the road, steering effort drops. To help my 100 lb wife cope with double the caster and our 245-50x15" front tires with 9-1/2" wide treads, I use 8" Campys in front to eliminate the OEM 7" Campy's poor scrub-radius & resulting extra steering load, and added an oversize MOMO steering wheel to give her a bit more leverage. With power steering, one can add even more caster if required. ;70s 'Vettes with power steering use 6-7 degrees.
-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
To: richard at richardgreenblum.com <richard at richardgreenblum.com>; Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 2:33 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Poly vs. Rubber suspension bushings
I forget exactly what the offset ratio is to degrees of caster, but I
think that 0.100" gets you about another degree, IMO optimal for a
narrow body car is a total of about 4.5 degrees, for a wide body 6.5
degrees.
The front a-arm modification produces an almost infinitely adjustable
caster up to about 7.5 degrees. I have collected maybe 5 or 6 pairs of
a-arms over a period to modify and will have to blitz them out one of
these weekends when I'm locked in with nothing else to do.....
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 2:19 PM
To: richard at richardgreenblum.com <richard at richardgreenblum.com>
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Poly vs. Rubber suspension bushings
Richard,
Not quite. You can't easily increase caster with the bushings. But it's
easy to increase caster by simply machining .100" off the back side of
the upper front ball joints. I believe Jack DeRyke pioneered this,
although I'm not sure.
I've done it on every car I've worked on, with great effect.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 9, 2020, at 13:15, "richard at richardgreenblum.com"
<richard at richardgreenblum.com> wrote:
>
> The only downside I see to the rubber bushings is you can't increase
caster.
>
> Richard
> Austin, TX
>
>
>> On Apr 9, 2020, at 14:13, Paul A Rimov <rimovp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Million dollar super cars that have vastly more sophisticated
suspensions and chassis still use rubber bushings.
>>
>> rimovp at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>>> On Apr 9, 2020, at 12:30 AM, charlesmccall at gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I decided to take advantage of being away from my car to fix a
>>> long-time engine oil leak by removing my suspension, radiator, etc
>>> 😊
>>>
>>>
>>> You know how these things go... I asked the guy to check the car
over
>>> while he had the engine out, and the task list is growing, so my
car is
>>> in a bunch of pieces right now.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Drew is helping source parts for me, and he asked if I wanted
poly
>>> or rubber bushings. I know that this subject has been discussed a
>>> million times, but I didn't take notes. My specific question:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. Is it commonly accepted that poly is better but will squeak
without
>>> proper lubrication? Rubber is maintenance-free but degrades
over
>>> time and doesn't work quite as well?
>>> 2. How difficult is it to lubricate them? Is this a matter of
>>> installing a zerk fitting and zapping it once a year? Do you
wipe
>>> it on? How easy is it to access them without a lift?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
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-------------- next part --------------
Correct as far as I know. Besides cornering benefits, -4.5 degrees of
caster is about all anyone without power steering can handle, at least
in low speed traffic & parking lots. Out on the road, steering effort
drops. To help my 100 lb wife cope with double the caster and our
245-50x15" front tires with 9-1/2" wide treads, I use 8" Campys in
front to eliminate the OEM 7" Campy's poor scrub-radius & resulting
extra steering load, and added an oversize MOMO steering wheel to give
her a bit more leverage. With power steering, one can add even more
caster if required. ;70s 'Vettes with power steering use 6-7 degrees.
-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
To: richard at richardgreenblum.com <richard at richardgreenblum.com>; Mike
Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 2:33 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Poly vs. Rubber suspension bushings
I forget exactly what the offset ratio is to degrees of caster, but I
think that 0.100" gets you about another degree, IMO optimal for a
narrow body car is a total of about 4.5 degrees, for a wide body 6.5
degrees.
The front a-arm modification produces an almost infinitely adjustable
caster up to about 7.5 degrees. I have collected maybe 5 or 6 pairs
of
a-arms over a period to modify and will have to blitz them out one of
these weekends when I'm locked in with nothing else to do.....
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
behalf of
Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 2:19 PM
To: [3]richard at richardgreenblum.com <[4]richard at richardgreenblum.com>
Cc: [5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<[6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Poly vs. Rubber suspension bushings
Richard,
Not quite. You can't easily increase caster with the bushings. But
it's
easy to increase caster by simply machining .100" off the back side
of
the upper front ball joints. I believe Jack DeRyke pioneered this,
although I'm not sure.
I've done it on every car I've worked on, with great effect.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 9, 2020, at 13:15, "[7]richard at richardgreenblum.com"
<[8]richard at richardgreenblum.com> wrote:
>
> The only downside I see to the rubber bushings is you can't
increase
caster.
>
> Richard
> Austin, TX
>
>
>> On Apr 9, 2020, at 14:13, Paul A Rimov <[9]rimovp at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Million dollar super cars that have vastly more sophisticated
suspensions and chassis still use rubber bushings.
>>
>> [10]rimovp at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>>> On Apr 9, 2020, at 12:30 AM, [11]charlesmccall at gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I decided to take advantage of being away from my car to fix a
>>> long-time engine oil leak by removing my suspension, radiator,
etc
>>> d-
>>>
>>>
>>> You know how these things go... I asked the guy to check the car
over
>>> while he had the engine out, and the task list is growing, so my
car is
>>> in a bunch of pieces right now.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Drew is helping source parts for me, and he asked if I
wanted
poly
>>> or rubber bushings. I know that this subject has been discussed a
>>> million times, but I didn't take notes. My specific question:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. Is it commonly accepted that poly is better but will squeak
without
>>> proper lubrication? Rubber is maintenance-free but degrades
over
>>> time and doesn't work quite as well?
>>> 2. How difficult is it to lubricate them? Is this a matter of
>>> installing a zerk fitting and zapping it once a year? Do you
wipe
>>> it on? How easy is it to access them without a lift?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> [12]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> [1][13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
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>>
>>
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>
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