[DeTomaso] Fw: Reconditioning dead batteries
j g
notstock at yahoo.com
Tue Oct 29 13:44:17 EDT 2019
----- Forwarded Message ----- From: j g <notstock at yahoo.com>To: Sean Korb <spkorb at gmail.com>Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2019, 12:40:52 PM CDTSubject: Re: [DeTomaso] Reconditioning dead batteries
the good commercial chargers with battery disulfaters circuitry do work . However I have found that they work best with the battery disconnected from the car.
Most of the modern alternators have battery dump protection diodes built in as well as some with regulators that will act as over voltage protection when you try and jump start the car.
These are usually set somewhere in the 18 to 20 volt maximum range and some as low as 16volts if the car came with either an AGM or a Liion cell for the battery.
The desulfators all apply a high voltage spike with a negative ring to the battery . Self powered desulfators will drain your battery if left on the battery .
So the better units are the micro processor based units that have a time out as well as a charge based routine that allows them to disulfate then validate voltage
and charge rate and switch back to disulfate if the charge rate is not what it should be from your initial starting point All fast recovery units pulse the battery to between 27 and 40 volts
for about a millisecond or less and let the inductor in series with the battery ring down. The rate at which this is repeated is dependent on the particular unit or the micro program cycle.
The self powered units are using the battery as both power for the electronics and for the shorting switch and inductor resonator
the high current version still take 8 hours or so to do their job as a result they can blow out the battery or the alternator if left running all the time.
EDTA additive or old VX6cadmium additive work chemically to disulfate the battery .
Charge It CH-77QHD Heavy-Duty Concentrated Battery Additive, 32. Fluid_Ounces
this stuff works extremely well and I add it to even a new battery to extend the life.
I use the microprocessor based chargers with battery desulfaters because I want a set and forget situation .
If you were to make a 555 and high power igbt or fet and inductor unit with a way to adjust current cycle time and a complete shut off disconnect
, keep the peak voltage down to no more than 17 volts it might do the trick for you it will take days though to completely disulfate a normal car battery with that low of a voltage and current.
jg On Tuesday, October 29, 2019, 12:04:03 PM CDT, Sean Korb <spkorb at gmail.com> wrote:
How do the electronic desulfating chargers work? Can I fake it with a
555 timer and accumulator triggering a SPDT relay from ummmm... my
car's charging system through the 25A cigarette lighter? I was
thinking driving it around would help for agitation. Just anchor it
in the trunk for a week or so of commuting.
Or, you know, I could buy the right tool. I've always been curious
how it works but I heard it was a square wave of high amperage pulses
, 5A to 12A?
sean
On 10/29/19, j g via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> I Can remember a day back in the 1960's where every service station
> used to actually fill your tank, sell tires , batteries etc: Gasoline
> was 7 cents a gallon and 3 cents was taxes.
>
> During that time frame there was a whole after market industry that
> did what was called "rebuild a battery" . I can remember going to
> one of these rebuild facilities in the area we lived in.
> In the least case the battery was drained flushed vibrated to
> dislodge any material that has fallen off the plates and then
> re-flushed. Filled with new acid solution and an additive containing a
> cadmium salt, The batteries were let sit for over night then charged
> and discharged rapidly for a couple of times then put on a normal
> charge, (10-25A) this usually fixed the battery back to a level it
> could last a couple of years sometimes . ( we used rebuilder batteries
> on all the farm equipment and the older cars) A large percentage of
> the batteries returned for rebuild by the stations fell into this
> category. They were sold at a relaxed price compared to a new one and
> usually had a 30 day warranty ( My grandfather worked at a service
> station as a do it all guy in the small town).
> Sometimes this was done with the re builder company removing the whole
> top or bottom of the battery case then re fusing it on when all the
> mechanical stuff and flushing was completed . when the bottom was cut
> off the batteries if i remember correctly they were pressure flushed
> and the whole plate stack was inspected and then went through a couple
> of washes in a agitated tank then to the next and finally into a tank
> that had a cadmium salt additive and a slow current applied between the
> battery plates ( terminal ) and the Cadmium Bath and held for some time
> (4 hours if i remember from me sitting there over many days ). They
> did replace plates or whole cells from other junked batteries that had
> come in as unservicable sometimes or in the premium battery new cells
> as applicable to price , The batteries were then refused with their
> tops or bases ( some kind of thick tar like goo) and tested for
> leaks after a cure time , a couple of days in a big area. The high
> end of the rebuilder batteries were still about half the cost of the
> same battery new. One reason my grand father swore by the batteries is
> because they let him pick the guts he was going to put into the battery
> as well as help by doing a lot of the work on his battery and he would
> try and pack as many plates as he could in each cell from other
> batteries . This made starting a tractor much easier. Sure was
> different when you could go into a factory doing repair work and
> actually see what was going on.
> MY take by me using either EDTA or Cadmium based additives is that
> most batteries can be brought back without ever taking them apart , I
> do individual cell high rate charging and the whole battery crow bar
> short testing , Usually can get 6 to 7 years out of a lawn and garden
> tractor and 11 to 12 years out of a low end car battery. The
> electronic desulate chargers do work and unless there is large crap
> shorting cells in the bottom I have had very good success in this, (
> I do have a very good materials science education and engineering/
> Physics graduate paper)
> jg
>
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2019, 10:16:42 AM CDT, marshallgsmith
> <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Good morning everyone,
> Has anyone had any experience with the current marketing campaign on
> the procedure to recondition dead batteries?
> I was convinced it was a scam but it continues to surface.
> Thank you and an early happy Halloween to everyone!
> Marshall
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
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> [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
--
Sean Korb spkorb at gmail.com http://spkorb.org (est 1994)
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
-------------- next part --------------
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: j g <notstock at yahoo.com>
To: Sean Korb <spkorb at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2019, 12:40:52 PM CDT
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Reconditioning dead batteries
the good commercial chargers with battery disulfaters circuitry do work
. However I have found that they work best with the battery
disconnected from the car.
Most of the modern alternators have battery dump protection diodes
built in as well as some with regulators that will act as over voltage
protection when you try and jump start the car.
These are usually set somewhere in the 18 to 20 volt maximum range and
some as low as 16volts if the car came with either an AGM or a Liion
cell for the battery.
The desulfators all apply a high voltage spike with a negative ring to
the battery . Self powered desulfators will drain your battery if left
on the battery .
So the better units are the micro processor based units that have a
time out as well as a charge based routine that allows them to
disulfate then validate voltage
and charge rate and switch back to disulfate if the charge rate is not
what it should be from your initial starting point All fast recovery
units pulse the battery to between 27 and 40 volts
for about a millisecond or less and let the inductor in series with the
battery ring down. The rate at which this is repeated is dependent on
the particular unit or the micro program cycle.
The self powered units are using the battery as both power for the
electronics and for the shorting switch and inductor resonator
the high current version still take 8 hours or so to do their job as a
result they can blow out the battery or the alternator if left running
all the time.
EDTA additive or old VX6cadmium additive work chemically to disulfate
the battery .
Charge It CH-77QHD Heavy-Duty Concentrated Battery Additive, 32.
Fluid_Ounces
this stuff works extremely well and I add it to even a new battery to
extend the life.
I use the microprocessor based chargers with battery desulfaters
because I want a set and forget situation .
If you were to make a 555 and high power igbt or fet and inductor unit
with a way to adjust current cycle time and a complete shut off
disconnect
, keep the peak voltage down to no more than 17 volts it might do the
trick for you it will take days though to completely disulfate a normal
car battery with that low of a voltage and current.
jg
On Tuesday, October 29, 2019, 12:04:03 PM CDT, Sean Korb
<spkorb at gmail.com> wrote:
How do the electronic desulfating chargers work? Can I fake it with a
555 timer and accumulator triggering a SPDT relay from ummmm... my
car's charging system through the 25A cigarette lighter? I was
thinking driving it around would help for agitation. Just anchor it
in the trunk for a week or so of commuting.
Or, you know, I could buy the right tool. I've always been curious
how it works but I heard it was a square wave of high amperage pulses
, 5A to 12A?
sean
On 10/29/19, j g via DeTomaso <[1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
wrote:
> I Can remember a day back in the 1960's where every service
station
> used to actually fill your tank, sell tires , batteries etc:
Gasoline
> was 7 cents a gallon and 3 cents was taxes.
>
> During that time frame there was a whole after market industry
that
> did what was called "rebuild a battery" . I can remember going
to
> one of these rebuild facilities in the area we lived in.
> In the least case the battery was drained flushed vibrated to
> dislodge any material that has fallen off the plates and then
> re-flushed. Filled with new acid solution and an additive
containing a
> cadmium salt, The batteries were let sit for over night then
charged
> and discharged rapidly for a couple of times then put on a normal
> charge, (10-25A) this usually fixed the battery back to a level
it
> could last a couple of years sometimes . ( we used rebuilder
batteries
> on all the farm equipment and the older cars) A large percentage
of
> the batteries returned for rebuild by the stations fell into this
> category. They were sold at a relaxed price compared to a new one
and
> usually had a 30 day warranty ( My grandfather worked at a
service
> station as a do it all guy in the small town).
> Sometimes this was done with the re builder company removing the
whole
> top or bottom of the battery case then re fusing it on when all
the
> mechanical stuff and flushing was completed . when the bottom was
cut
> off the batteries if i remember correctly they were pressure
flushed
> and the whole plate stack was inspected and then went through a
couple
> of washes in a agitated tank then to the next and finally into a
tank
> that had a cadmium salt additive and a slow current applied
between the
> battery plates ( terminal ) and the Cadmium Bath and held for some
time
> (4 hours if i remember from me sitting there over many days ).
They
> did replace plates or whole cells from other junked batteries
that had
> come in as unservicable sometimes or in the premium battery new
cells
> as applicable to price , The batteries were then refused with
their
> tops or bases ( some kind of thick tar like goo) and tested
for
> leaks after a cure time , a couple of days in a big area. The
high
> end of the rebuilder batteries were still about half the cost of
the
> same battery new. One reason my grand father swore by the
batteries is
> because they let him pick the guts he was going to put into the
battery
> as well as help by doing a lot of the work on his battery and he
would
> try and pack as many plates as he could in each cell from other
> batteries . This made starting a tractor much easier. Sure was
> different when you could go into a factory doing repair work and
> actually see what was going on.
> MY take by me using either EDTA or Cadmium based additives is
that
> most batteries can be brought back without ever taking them apart
, I
> do individual cell high rate charging and the whole battery crow
bar
> short testing , Usually can get 6 to 7 years out of a lawn and
garden
> tractor and 11 to 12 years out of a low end car battery. The
> electronic desulate chargers do work and unless there is large
crap
> shorting cells in the bottom I have had very good success in
this, (
> I do have a very good materials science education and engineering/
> Physics graduate paper)
> jg
>
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2019, 10:16:42 AM CDT, marshallgsmith
> <[2]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Good morning everyone,
> Has anyone had any experience with the current marketing
campaign on
> the procedure to recondition dead batteries?
> I was convinced it was a scam but it continues to surface.
> Thank you and an early happy Halloween to everyone!
> Marshall
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [1][3]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [2][4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[5]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 2. [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
--
Sean Korb [7]spkorb at gmail.com [8]http://spkorb.org (est 1994)
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
References
1. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
2. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
3. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
7. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
8. http://spkorb.org/
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