[DeTomaso] Euro GTS production numbers
Steve Lisa
stevelisa at patentit.com
Sun Mar 3 12:07:20 EST 2019
Jack, Mike, Julian:
What started me down this path is the research I was doing on the Group 3
racers. From what I can tell, the late 1972 FIA Gr3 Specs did not allow
any of the "GTS" mods. This was important for me -- as I wanted to keep
SN5533 out of the vintage classes that included the big-bore SCCA
production and FIA GR4 cars. For example, the Pantera GTS header/exhaust
was not allowed by the FIA in GR3 until later -- in 1973. So pre-72 GR3
racers apparently ran gutted stock mufflers. Later, the FIA allowed in
GR3 for the Pantera the bigger brakes, axles, uprights, a front air dam,
etc.
Anyway -- all that research is causing me to drool a bit for a "real" early
era GTS euro model.
Regards,
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
*The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC*
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
Direct: 312-320-5888
www.PatentIt.com <http://www.patentit.com/>
*Scottsdale Office* | *P*: 480.535.6656 | *F:* 480.535.6628 | *A:* 7689
East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
*Chicago Office *|* P:* 312.752.4357 | *F:* 312.896.5633 | *A:* 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank you.
On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 8:45 PM Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
> Jack,
>
> With the Pantera serial numbers starting at 1000 (or 1001?) and the last
> Vignale body being 7504, that means 6504 cars built (or at least started)
> under Ford’s tenure. (The last 124 of those Ford-era cars were completed
> and sold by De Tomaso). With 5244 imported by Ford into North America, that
> means 1260 (or thereabouts) Panteras of all types for the worldwide market.
>
> As the GTS didn’t appear until spring of 1972, all the 1971 and early 1972
> cars were not GTS models. Even after the introduction of the GTS, the Euro
> market still got their own version of the Pantera L, and quite a few more
> were sold (although it seems the majority of customers were willing to pay
> more for the GTS version).
>
> So that’s how I arrived at my very rough guesstimate.
>
> Arguably virtually all the 1975-1980 Panteras were GTS models. After 1980,
> the GT5 and later GT5-S comprised the bulk of sales, but some narrow-body
> GTS models continued to be built right up until the end.
>
> I should know the serial number of the last one of those, but sadly I
> don’t. I don’t even know the year of the last narrow body car made. I’m
> sure Peter Havlik and Chuck Melton would have a very good idea though.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 2, 2019, at 19:19, Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso <
> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> >
> > Steve, DeTomaso called substantially ALL of the narrow-body European
> > cars he sold- 'Pantera GTS', from mid-'71 to 1989. Reportedly, he took
> > about 20% of the total production for Europe, the far East and
> > Mid-east. So it's a rather large (but unknown) number. So the answer is
> > NO- all are guesses.
> > Then there were the small number of Pantera GTS/Gr-3 club-racers sold
> > in Europe by the factory for lower level competition (but still street
> > legal): about 25. 12 more were sold, then later returned to the factory
> > for Gr-3 mods intended for Europe. Two are now in the U.S. and run in
> > selected vintage race classes. For those 37 cars, Anders Hellburg in
> > Sweden maintains a Gr-3 Registry of serial numbers. There are no
> > defining badges nor markings for a GTS/Gr-3 as they were built on
> > regular chassis, or modified later by owners or private shops.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com>
> > To: List DeTomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > Sent: Sat, Mar 2, 2019 3:47 pm
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Euro GTS production numbers
> > Does anyone know how many Euro GTS models were produced?
> > Regards,A
> > Steven G. Lisa, Esq.A
> > Email: [1]SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
> > Direct:A 312-320-5888
> > Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
> > |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
> > Chicago OfficeA |A P:A 312.752.4357A |A A F:312.896.5633A |A A A:A
> > 55
> > E. Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
> > [1]www.PatentIt.com
> > This email is intended only for the recipient above, and may contain
> > confidential and privileged information. If you received this email
> > in
> > error, please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me.
> > Thank
> > you.
> > References
> > 1. [2]http://www.PatentIt.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [3]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use the links above.
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> > or approve the archiving of list messages.
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. mailto:SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
> > 2. http://www.PatentIt.com/
> > 3. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
Jack, Mike, Julian:A
What started me down this path is the research I was doing on the Group
3 racers.A From what I can tell, the late 1972 FIA Gr3 Specs did not
allow any of the "GTS" mods.A This was important for me -- as I wanted
to keep SN5533 out of the vintage classes that included the big-bore
SCCA production and FIA GR4 cars.A For example, the Pantera GTS
header/exhaust was not allowed by the FIA in GR3 until later -- in
1973.A So pre-72 GR3 racers apparently ran gutted stock mufflers.A
Later,A the FIA allowed in GR3 for the Pantera the bigger brakes,
axles, uprights, a front air dam, etc.A A A
Anyway -- all that research is causing me to drool a bit for a "real"
early era GTS euro model.A A
Regards,A
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
Direct: 312-320-5888
[1]www.PatentIt.com
Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
|A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A |A F: 312.896.5633A |A A: 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
you.
On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 8:45 PM Mike Drew <[2]MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
Jack,
With the Pantera serial numbers starting at 1000 (or 1001?) and the
last Vignale body being 7504, that means 6504 cars built (or at
least started) under Fordas tenure. (The last 124 of those Ford-era
cars were completed and sold by De Tomaso). With 5244 imported by
Ford into North America, that means 1260 (or thereabouts) Panteras
of all types for the worldwide market.
As the GTS didnat appear until spring of 1972, all the 1971 and
early 1972 cars were not GTS models. Even after the introduction of
the GTS, the Euro market still got their own version of the Pantera
L, and quite a few more were sold (although it seems the majority of
customers were willing to pay more for the GTS version).
So thatas how I arrived at my very rough guesstimate.
Arguably virtually all the 1975-1980 Panteras were GTS models. After
1980, the GT5 and later GT5-S comprised the bulk of sales, but some
narrow-body GTS models continued to be built right up until the end.
I should know the serial number of the last one of those, but sadly
I donat. I donat even know the year of the last narrow body car
made. Iam sure Peter Havlik and Chuck Melton would have a very good
idea though.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 2, 2019, at 19:19, Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso
<[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
>A A Steve, DeTomaso called substantially ALL of the narrow-body
European
>A A cars he sold- 'Pantera GTS', from mid-'71 to 1989. Reportedly,
he took
>A A about 20% of the total production for Europe, the far East and
>A A Mid-east. So it's a rather large (but unknown) number. So the
answer is
>A A NO- all are guesses.
>A A Then there were the small number of Pantera GTS/Gr-3
club-racers sold
>A A in Europe by the factory for lower level competition (but
still street
>A A legal): about 25. 12 more were sold, then later returned to
the factory
>A A for Gr-3 mods intended for Europe. Two are now in the U.S. and
run in
>A A selected vintage race classes. For those 37 cars, Anders
Hellburg in
>A A Sweden maintains a Gr-3 Registry of serial numbers. There are
no
>A A defining badges nor markings for a GTS/Gr-3 as they were built
on
>A A regular chassis, or modified later by owners or private shops.
>
>A A -----Original Message-----
>A A From: Steve Lisa <[4]stevelisa at patentit.com>
>A A To: List DeTomaso Forum <[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>A A Sent: Sat, Mar 2, 2019 3:47 pm
>A A Subject: [DeTomaso] Euro GTS production numbers
>A A A Does anyone know how many Euro GTS models were produced?
>A A A Regards,A
>A A A Steven G. Lisa, Esq.A
>A A A Email: [1]SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
>A A A Direct:A 312-320-5888
>A A A Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656AA |A A F:A
480.535.6628A
>A A A |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ
85260
>A A A Chicago OfficeA |A P:A 312.752.4357AA |A A
F:312.896.5633AA |A A A:A
>A A 55
>A A A E. Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
>A A A [1][6]www.PatentIt.com
>A A A This email is intended only for the recipient above, and
may contain
>A A A confidential and privileged information. If you received
this email
>A A in
>A A A error, please destroy it and indicate such by return email
to me.
>A A Thank
>A A A you.
>A A References
>A A A 1. [2][7]http://www.PatentIt.com/
>A A _______________________________________________
>A A Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>A A DeTomaso mailing list
>A A [3][8]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>A A [4][9]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.)
>A A use the links above.
>A A Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward any
>A A message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the
>A A list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
>A A or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
>A A 1. mailto:[10]SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
>A A 2. [11]http://www.PatentIt.com/
>A A 3. mailto:[12]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>A A 4.
[13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [14]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
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archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. http://www.patentit.com/
2. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
4. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
6. http://www.PatentIt.com/
7. http://www.PatentIt.com/
8. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
9. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
10. mailto:SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
11. http://www.PatentIt.com/
12. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
14. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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