[DeTomaso] Engine stalls on start up -Help!!!
Julian Kift
julian_kift at hotmail.com
Tue Jul 30 14:05:03 EDT 2019
While it is most certainly typical and good practice to install a coarse (100 micron) filter prior to the fuel pump I know of no SCCA regulation mandating that a fuel filter be prior to the pump? Many EFI systems have a secondary filter (40 microns) prior to the injectors and a line pressure of 65 psi!
SCCA does mandate a fire extinguisher though!
Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 10:46 AM
To: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine stalls on start up -Help!!!
Just as a note, SCCA tech requires that the fuel filter be installed before the fuel pump, so that if it ruptures it is not spewing fuel from a pressurized fuel line. Our fuel lines are now built to these standards using Stainless Steel Braided PTFE (Teflon) fuel lines for today's pump gas and metal encased AN fitting Fuel Filters. Barb fitting and Clear Fuel Filters are not recommended, especially on a pressurized fuel line.
Larry Stock
On 7/30/19, 10:33 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Pantdino via DeTomaso" <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
If I were you I would install the fuel filter now, before you suck up
some more debris from the tank and it plugs up the jets more. Install
it low in the fuel line, not up by the dizzy. A leak by the dizzy can
start a fire
I have never heard of a car being run without a fuel filter.
Jim
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
Get the new AOL app: [1]mail.mobile.aol.com
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019, Panteratime via
DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
Folks,
Thanks again for all your feedback! I called Demon, the carb does
not have an inboard filter. I am going to spray Gumont carb cleaner
and see any improvement. May have wife or friend watch inline fuel
pressure gauge. (I understand 5-7 lbs is good)? After that I'm
going to trouble shoot gas delivery if needed. Also going to add an
inline fuel filter.
Whats this about the mesh sock in tank pickup? How can i see if
mine
degraded and broke apart?
Thanks everyone!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: Julian Kift <[3]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Cc: [4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 29, 2019 5:40 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine stalls on start up -Help!!!
Bob did my carb based on the engine specs and itas magnificent.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 29, 2019, at 12:53, Julian Kift
<[1][6]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Send the carb to Bob at Comeptition Carburetion here in Reno, he's
a
> legend. He'll rebuild and tune it to your engine specs and it will
work
> a charm straight out of the box.
>
> I only recently realized he does distributors as well, re-bushes
and
> reworks them removing all the inherent slop. A friend had one done
for
> a sprint car and was amazed at the impact.
>
> [1][2][7]https://www.competitioncarburetion.com/
>
> Julian
>
__________________________________________________________________
>
> From: DeTomaso <[3][8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
behalf of
> Pantdino via DeTomaso <[4][9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 3:27 PM
> To: [5][10]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
<[6][11]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: [7][12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<[8][13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine stalls on start up -Help!!!
>
> AFAIK carbs have 3 circuits-- idle, cruise, and acceleration. If
the
> car only runs if you are pumping the gas pedal, it means the
> acceleration circuit is the only one giving the engine fuel. Every
time
> you depress the pedal quickly the acceleration pump squirts in
some
> fuel. If it idles but dies as soon as you slowly give it gas, it
means
> the cruise circuit is not working-- probably a clogged jet.
> If you have the correct fuel pressure, I suspect you're looking at
a
> carb rebuild. No big deal. I'm mainly a Weber guy, so I don't
know
if
> you carb has jets you can access from outside to check them for
debris.
> Jim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: marshallgsmith <[9][14]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: Julian Kift <[10][15]julian_kift at hotmail.com>;
[11][16]detomasoregistry at gmail.com
> <[12][17]detomasoregistry at gmail.com>; Panteratime
<[13][18]panteratime at aol.com>
> Cc: [14][19]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<[15][20]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Sat, Jul 27, 2019 7:43 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine stalls on start up -Help!!!
> First things first. Pull the fuel line off and see if you have
fuel
> pressure from the pump.
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Julian Kift <[16][21]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Date: 7/27/19 3:43 PM (GMT-09:00)
> To: [17][22]detomasoregistry at gmail.com, Panteratime
<[18][23]panteratime at aol.com>
> Cc: [19][24]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine stalls on start up -Help!!!
> If it's that low on gas you may have started picking up the
dregs
in
> the tank, which may have some water in it given hygroscopic
nature
of
> ethanol blended fuels. Also fuel evaporates from fuel bowls etc.
and
> leaves a layer of varnish which takes a little while to wash
back
> off.
> Do you aheva cold satrt (choke) circuit? If so is it manual or
> electric
> and functional?
> Modern AGM batteries don't like being fully discharged, in fact
it
> cuts
> their life in half, I always keep a trickle charger on the car
when
> not
> in use for more than a week, there is likely always some level
of
> parasitic drain.
> Julian
> ________________________________
> From: DeTomaso
<[20][25]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
behalf
> of
> Panteratime via DeTomaso
<[21][26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 4:01 PM
> To: [22][27]detomasoregistry at gmail.com
<[23][28]detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
> Cc: [24][29]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <[25][30]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine stalls on start up -Help!!!
> thanks Chuck--Will put trickle charge on this evening. step 1 !
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy
<[26][31]detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
> To: 'Panteratime' <[27][32]panteratime at aol.com>
> Cc: List DeTomaso Forum
<[28][33]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Sat, Jul 27, 2019 5:48 pm
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Engine stalls on start up -Help!!!
> Folks,Scenario: 1972-stock motor with Demon carb--ran great
only
a
> few
> months ago. Took seats out ot reupholster. Car sat for a
> month Car starts and stalls Give it gas-fights to stay running
> Observations:Very low on gasAmmeter pinned to right the entire
minute
> the car was fighting to run.
> Added some gas--definitely off E but not a 1/4 tank ran much
longer
> but still had to feather gas to keep running--Ammeter pinned to
> right all the time car was struggling to keep running
> I haven't run the car in a month.
> Suggestions? Thoughts? Thanks!!!
>>>> First deal with the charging issue.
> Any car (battery) stored for a while will likely need a top-off
> charge
> before driving.
> It can be hard on the system when at max charge for longer
periods.
> Why strain the car's
> electrical system.
> *Put a trickle charger directly on the battery until charged.
> As to the starting or running, it might be the fuel pump (weak,
old,
> or
> diaphragm failing).
> You symptoms may be fuel starvation.
> Should I continue ?
> Chuck
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> 1. [31][36]https://www.competitioncarburetion.com/
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2. [43]https://www.competitioncarburetion.com/
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5. mailto:[46]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
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27. mailto:[68]panteratime at aol.com
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30. [71]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
31. [72]https://www.competitioncarburetion.com/
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2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
3. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
6. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
7. https://www.competitioncarburetion.com/
8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
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18. mailto:panteratime at aol.com
19. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
20. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
21. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
22. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
23. mailto:panteratime at aol.com
24. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
25. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
26. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
27. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
28. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
29. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
30. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
31. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
32. mailto:panteratime at aol.com
33. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
34. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
35. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
36. https://www.competitioncarburetion.com/
37. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
38. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
39. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
40. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
41. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
42. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
43. https://www.competitioncarburetion.com/
44. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
45. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
46. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
47. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
48. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
49. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
50. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
51. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
52. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
53. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
54. mailto:panteratime at aol.com
55. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
56. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
57. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
58. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
59. mailto:panteratime at aol.com
60. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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62. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
63. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
64. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
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66. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
67. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
68. mailto:panteratime at aol.com
69. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
70. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
71. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
72. https://www.competitioncarburetion.com/
73. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
74. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
75. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
76. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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-------------- next part --------------
While it is most certainly typical and good practice to install a
coarse (100 micron) filter prior to the fuel pump I know of no SCCA
regulation mandating that a fuel filter be prior to the pump? Many EFI
systems have a secondary filter (40 microns) prior to the injectors and
a line pressure of 65 psi!
SCCA does mandate a fire extinguisher though!
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 10:46 AM
To: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine stalls on start up -Help!!!
Just as a note, SCCA tech requires that the fuel filter be installed
before the fuel pump, so that if it ruptures it is not spewing fuel
from a pressurized fuel line. Our fuel lines are now built to these
standards using Stainless Steel Braided PTFE (Teflon) fuel lines for
today's pump gas and metal encased AN fitting Fuel Filters. Barb
fitting and Clear Fuel Filters are not recommended, especially on a
pressurized fuel line.
Larry Stock
On 7/30/19, 10:33 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Pantdino via DeTomaso"
<detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
If I were you I would install the fuel filter now, before you
suck up
some more debris from the tank and it plugs up the jets more.
Install
it low in the fuel line, not up by the dizzy. A leak by the
dizzy can
start a fire
I have never heard of a car being run without a fuel filter.
Jim
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
Get the new AOL app: [1]mail.mobile.aol.com
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019, Panteratime via
DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
Folks,
Thanks again for all your feedback! I called Demon, the
carb does
not have an inboard filter. I am going to spray Gumont carb
cleaner
and see any improvement. May have wife or friend watch inline
fuel
pressure gauge. (I understand 5-7 lbs is good)? After that
I'm
going to trouble shoot gas delivery if needed. Also going to
add an
inline fuel filter.
Whats this about the mesh sock in tank pickup? How can i see
if
mine
degraded and broke apart?
Thanks everyone!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso
<[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: Julian Kift <[3]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Cc: [4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 29, 2019 5:40 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine stalls on start up -Help!!!
Bob did my carb based on the engine specs and itas
magnificent.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 29, 2019, at 12:53, Julian Kift
<[1][6]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Send the carb to Bob at Comeptition Carburetion here in
Reno, he's
a
> legend. He'll rebuild and tune it to your engine specs and
it will
work
> a charm straight out of the box.
>
> I only recently realized he does distributors as well,
re-bushes
and
> reworks them removing all the inherent slop. A friend had
one done
for
> a sprint car and was amazed at the impact.
>
> [1][2][7]https://www.competitioncarburetion.com/
>
> Julian
>
__________________________________________________________________
>
> From: DeTomaso
<[3][8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
behalf of
> Pantdino via DeTomaso
<[4][9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 3:27 PM
> To: [5][10]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
<[6][11]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: [7][12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<[8][13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine stalls on start up -Help!!!
>
> AFAIK carbs have 3 circuits-- idle, cruise, and
acceleration. If
the
> car only runs if you are pumping the gas pedal, it means
the
> acceleration circuit is the only one giving the engine
fuel. Every
time
> you depress the pedal quickly the acceleration pump squirts
in
some
> fuel. If it idles but dies as soon as you slowly give it
gas, it
means
> the cruise circuit is not working-- probably a clogged jet.
> If you have the correct fuel pressure, I suspect you're
looking at
a
> carb rebuild. No big deal. I'm mainly a Weber guy, so I
don't
know
if
> you carb has jets you can access from outside to check them
for
debris.
> Jim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: marshallgsmith <[9][14]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: Julian Kift <[10][15]julian_kift at hotmail.com>;
[11][16]detomasoregistry at gmail.com
> <[12][17]detomasoregistry at gmail.com>; Panteratime
<[13][18]panteratime at aol.com>
> Cc: [14][19]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<[15][20]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Sat, Jul 27, 2019 7:43 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine stalls on start up -Help!!!
> First things first. Pull the fuel line off and see if you
have
fuel
> pressure from the pump.
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Julian Kift <[16][21]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Date: 7/27/19 3:43 PM (GMT-09:00)
> To: [17][22]detomasoregistry at gmail.com, Panteratime
<[18][23]panteratime at aol.com>
> Cc: [19][24]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine stalls on start up
-Help!!!
> If it's that low on gas you may have started picking up
the
dregs
in
> the tank, which may have some water in it given
hygroscopic
nature
of
> ethanol blended fuels. Also fuel evaporates from fuel
bowls etc.
and
> leaves a layer of varnish which takes a little while to
wash
back
> off.
> Do you aheva cold satrt (choke) circuit? If so is it
manual or
> electric
> and functional?
> Modern AGM batteries don't like being fully discharged,
in fact
it
> cuts
> their life in half, I always keep a trickle charger on
the car
when
> not
> in use for more than a week, there is likely always some
level
of
> parasitic drain.
> Julian
> ________________________________
> From: DeTomaso
<[20][25]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
behalf
> of
> Panteratime via DeTomaso
<[21][26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 4:01 PM
> To: [22][27]detomasoregistry at gmail.com
<[23][28]detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
> Cc: [24][29]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <[25][30]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine stalls on start up
-Help!!!
> thanks Chuck--Will put trickle charge on this evening.
step 1 !
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy
<[26][31]detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
> To: 'Panteratime' <[27][32]panteratime at aol.com>
> Cc: List DeTomaso Forum
<[28][33]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Sat, Jul 27, 2019 5:48 pm
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Engine stalls on start up
-Help!!!
> Folks,Scenario: 1972-stock motor with Demon carb--ran
great
only
a
> few
> months ago. Took seats out ot reupholster. Car sat for
a
> month Car starts and stalls Give it gas-fights to stay
running
> Observations:Very low on gasAmmeter pinned to right the
entire
minute
> the car was fighting to run.
> Added some gas--definitely off E but not a 1/4 tank ran
much
longer
> but still had to feather gas to keep running--Ammeter
pinned to
> right all the time car was struggling to keep running
> I haven't run the car in a month.
> Suggestions? Thoughts? Thanks!!!
>>>> First deal with the charging issue.
> Any car (battery) stored for a while will likely need a
top-off
> charge
> before driving.
> It can be hard on the system when at max charge for
longer
periods.
> Why strain the car's
> electrical system.
> *Put a trickle charger directly on the battery until
charged.
> As to the starting or running, it might be the fuel pump
(weak,
old,
> or
> diaphragm failing).
> You symptoms may be fuel starvation.
> Should I continue ?
> Chuck
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3. [3]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
4. [4]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. [5]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
6. [6]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
7. [7]https://www.competitioncarburetion.com/
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10. [10]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
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14. [14]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
15. [15]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
16. [16]mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
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18. [18]mailto:panteratime at aol.com
19. [19]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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21. [21]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
22. [22]mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
23. [23]mailto:panteratime at aol.com
24. [24]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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30. [30]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
31. [31]mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
32. [32]mailto:panteratime at aol.com
33. [33]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
34. [34]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
35. [35]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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44. [44]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
45. [45]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
46. [46]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
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48. [48]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
49. [49]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
50. [50]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
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52. [52]mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
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57. [57]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
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60. [60]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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67. [67]mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
68. [68]mailto:panteratime at aol.com
69. [69]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
70. [70]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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3. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
6. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
7. https://www.competitioncarburetion.com/
8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
11. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
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15. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
16. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
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43. https://www.competitioncarburetion.com/
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46. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
47. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
48. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
49. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
50. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
51. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
52. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
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69. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
70. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
71. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
72. https://www.competitioncarburetion.com/
73. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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