[DeTomaso] headers

Julian Kift julian_kift at hotmail.com
Sat Jan 12 20:15:31 EST 2019


I think that may have been misconstrued, I heard they make good boat anchors 😎

Julian

________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Chuck and Linda Huber <lindahuber at cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 5:13 PM
To: 'Charles Engles'; 'Daniel C Jones'
Cc: detomaso at detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] headers

Here is a picture of the collectors of the "Big Bore" cut off from the merge, and pictures of the inner merge.

I agree with Dan's assessment, based on looking at the way these are put together.

Mine had some work done to them to clean them up, and to get rid of the terrible collector.

They fit well though.

I heard that they originated as boat headers?

Chuck



-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Engles [mailto:cengles at cox.net]
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 5:29 PM
To: 'Daniel C Jones'
Cc: detomaso at detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] headers

Dear Dan,

                Thanks for the comprehensive factual review.

                 You're building a 390 stroker as the dyno mule engine?   No 351C mules?

                            Warmest regards, Chuck Engles


-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Daniel C Jones
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2019 6:06 PM
Cc: detomaso at detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] headers

>  IIRC, the Euro GTS headers-exhaust were considered the best although
they lost a reported 50 hp

It was the ANSA muflers that lost the 50 HP (compared to both Magnaflow mufflers and open headers.  Surprisingly, the GTS headers weren't too bad on peak power but gave up a bunch of peak torque (25 to 35 ft-lbs depending upon the engine combination) due to the short primary and collector lengths.  That's compared to a conventional Mustang long tube 4-into-1 headers with 1 3/4" diameter primaries and 3" diameter collectors.

> I need to purchase a new set for a 4v.  Tri wye or big bore.

The Euro GTS headers aren't really tri-y headers.  They are just 4-into-1 headers with a short tri-y collector.  They have primaries that are too big and a collector that is too small but, in our testing, performed a little better than the other 4-into-1 shorty headers we tested with (also too
short) conventional collectors.  Note that we did not test the Mind Train
4-into-1 headers.  I'd stay away from the Hall big bore which had the worst collector.

I believe a real 4-2-1 tri-y full length header would gain back that peak torque without sacrificing the peak power.  I've got a design that looks like it will fit the Pantera chassis and something I think I can use to test the concept on the dyno but when I'll  find the time to complete the project is unknown.

> I have heard a handful of anecdotal stories of problems with
> Wilkinson’s
system

Those were the best of the off-the-shelf Pantera exhaust systems we tested due primarily to the mufflers working much better than the original ANSA units.  Kelly Coffield's custom stepped 180s were probably the best Pantera exhaust we tested:


http://www.the351cforum.com/download/file.php?id=145&sid=28f9f95e76a6e46cbf253c192d9c2e26&mode=view

Note the small ID collector works on the 180s because no adjacent firing pulses are paired together in the same collector.  The of-the-shelf Pantera 180s I've seen have had way to large of a collector.

> I have a pair of headers for 2v heads is someone needs them.

I've been slowly gathering 2V parts to test on the dyno.  If no one snags them, I might have a use for them once the new dyno 390C is built.

Dan Jones


-------------- next part --------------
   I think that may have been misconstrued, I heard they make good boat
   anchors

   Julian
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
   Chuck and Linda Huber <lindahuber at cox.net>
   Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 5:13 PM
   To: 'Charles Engles'; 'Daniel C Jones'
   Cc: detomaso at detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] headers

   Here is a picture of the collectors of the "Big Bore" cut off from the
   merge, and pictures of the inner merge.
   I agree with Dan's assessment, based on looking at the way these are
   put together.
   Mine had some work done to them to clean them up, and to get rid of the
   terrible collector.
   They fit well though.
   I heard that they originated as boat headers?
   Chuck
   -----Original Message-----
   From: Charles Engles [[1]mailto:cengles at cox.net]
   Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 5:29 PM
   To: 'Daniel C Jones'
   Cc: detomaso at detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] headers
   Dear Dan,
                   Thanks for the comprehensive factual review.
                    You're building a 390 stroker as the dyno mule
   engine?   No 351C mules?
                               Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
   -----Original Message-----
   From: DeTomaso [[2]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
   Behalf Of Daniel C Jones
   Sent: Monday, January 07, 2019 6:06 PM
   Cc: detomaso at detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] headers
   >  IIRC, the Euro GTS headers-exhaust were considered the best although
   they lost a reported 50 hp
   It was the ANSA muflers that lost the 50 HP (compared to both Magnaflow
   mufflers and open headers.  Surprisingly, the GTS headers weren't too
   bad on peak power but gave up a bunch of peak torque (25 to 35 ft-lbs
   depending upon the engine combination) due to the short primary and
   collector lengths.  That's compared to a conventional Mustang long tube
   4-into-1 headers with 1 3/4" diameter primaries and 3" diameter
   collectors.
   > I need to purchase a new set for a 4v.  Tri wye or big bore.
   The Euro GTS headers aren't really tri-y headers.  They are just
   4-into-1 headers with a short tri-y collector.  They have primaries
   that are too big and a collector that is too small but, in our testing,
   performed a little better than the other 4-into-1 shorty headers we
   tested with (also too
   short) conventional collectors.  Note that we did not test the Mind
   Train
   4-into-1 headers.  I'd stay away from the Hall big bore which had the
   worst collector.
   I believe a real 4-2-1 tri-y full length header would gain back that
   peak torque without sacrificing the peak power.  I've got a design that
   looks like it will fit the Pantera chassis and something I think I can
   use to test the concept on the dyno but when I'll  find the time to
   complete the project is unknown.
   > I have heard a handful of anecdotal stories of problems with
   > Wilkinson's
   system
   Those were the best of the off-the-shelf Pantera exhaust systems we
   tested due primarily to the mufflers working much better than the
   original ANSA units.  Kelly Coffield's custom stepped 180s were
   probably the best Pantera exhaust we tested:
   [3]http://www.the351cforum.com/download/file.php?id=145&sid=28f9f95e76a
   6e46cbf253c192d9c2e26&mode=view
   Note the small ID collector works on the 180s because no adjacent
   firing pulses are paired together in the same collector.  The
   of-the-shelf Pantera 180s I've seen have had way to large of a
   collector.
   > I have a pair of headers for 2v heads is someone needs them.
   I've been slowly gathering 2V parts to test on the dyno.  If no one
   snags them, I might have a use for them once the new dyno 390C is
   built.
   Dan Jones

References

   1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   3. http://www.the351cforum.com/download/file.php?id=145&sid=28f9f95e76a6e46cbf253c192d9c2e26&mode=view


More information about the DeTomaso mailing list