[DeTomaso] headers

Mike Drew MikeLDrew at aol.com
Mon Jan 7 18:02:02 EST 2019 

Pat does some seriously trick stuff, including custom systems using 3-inch oval pipe!

I’m not aware of any objective comparison tests with other setups but I suspect that his stuff is terrific.

Mike

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 7, 2019, at 14:51, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> No mention of Pat Mical's headers, which I heard were some of the most unrestrictive.
> 
> Julian
> 
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 2:45 PM
> To: Charles Engles
> Cc: detomaso at detomasolist.com; Rich Hoppe
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] headers
>  
> Chuck,
> 
> The Mind Train headers have proven in dyno tests to be the best among the old-school solutions.  They are now being made and marketed by PIM and are designed to bolt up to Euro GTS mufflers. I believe they fit quite well. 
> 
> Hedmann used to make Pantera headers in both 2v and 4v variety, and 20 years ago I was riding with Larry Stock when we stopped by their factory and he took their whole inventory. I don’t know if he is still selling those, or if he has had them run a new batch since then?  I think that was the only option for true 2v headers. Rich—if that is what you have, they are valuable due to their rarity and quality. 
> 
> The GTS headers feature too-large primary pipes and too-small collectors. They give up a fair bit versus the other ones as a result. 
> 
> I have heard a handful of anecdotal stories of problems with Wilkinson’s system, but apart from the paint burning off, the ones on Lori’s car fit almost perfectly (one muffler is angled sideways a bit and the pipe could stand to be bent) and have had no longevity issues, after about 3000 miles (which admittedly isn’t all that much).
> 
> Mike
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> > On Jan 7, 2019, at 14:30, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
> > 
> > Dear Rich,
> > 
> >              I don't know that there is a consensus.   IIRC, the Euro GTS
> > headers-exhaust were considered the best although they lost a reported 50
> > hp.  The Hall Big Bores have a smallish collector and lose more hp.  I am
> > also aware of one cognoscente that finds the BB exhaust note unpleasant.
> > Then....came the Wilkinson headers.  Initially, they were reported to look
> > good, sound good and have the lowest hp loss.  For a while, they were the
> > ticket.   Then scattered reports of poor durability due to poor construction
> > were filed on Pantera message boards.
> > 
> >              I have a '74 Pantera.  The euro GTS headers hit the left
> > engine mount on installation and were" fixed" in 1990 by the mechanic who
> > installed them with a BFH.  Years later I discovered that they *still* did
> > not completely clear the engine mount.     I also have a pair of Hall BB
> > headers on the other 74 Pantera.  The do not interfere with the engine
> > mounts .   Neither the GTS nor the HBB interfere with the gas tank shield.
> > 
> >             I suppose the easiest option is to buy a set of the euro GTS
> > headers.  The best and most expensive option would be to have a set of
> > headers fabricated.  Whatever manufactured headers you buy, CHECK the
> > fitment carefully before the final exhaust gaskets and bolts are applied.
> > 
> > 
> >                                     Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
> > Of Larry Weston
> > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2019 8:26 AM
> > To: Rich Hoppe; detomaso at detomasolist.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] headers
> > 
> > Last experience with 2" GTS tri-wye pipe arrangement required serious gas
> > tank heat shield movement for clearance. Hall Big Bores not so much, but
> > they touched.
> > ________________________________
> > From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Rich
> > Hoppe <richbhoppe at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2019 4:53 PM
> > To: detomaso at detomasolist.com
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] headers
> > 
> > I have a pair of headers for 2v heads is someone needs them.
> > 
> > I need to purchase a new set for a 4v.
> > 
> > Tri wye or big bore.
> > What is the consensus?
> > Thanks
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > 
> > 
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
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> > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> > 
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
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-------------- next part --------------
   Pat does some seriously trick stuff, including custom systems using
   3-inch oval pipe!

   I'm not aware of any objective comparison tests with other setups but I
   suspect that his stuff is terrific.

   Mike
   Sent from my iPad
   On Jan 7, 2019, at 14:51, Julian Kift <[1]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   wrote:

   No mention of Pat Mical's headers, which I heard were some of the most
   unrestrictive.

   Julian
       _______________________________________________________________

   From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
   of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 2:45 PM
   To: Charles Engles
   Cc: [4]detomaso at detomasolist.com; Rich Hoppe
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] headers

   Chuck,
   The Mind Train headers have proven in dyno tests to be the best among
   the old-school solutions.  They are now being made and marketed by PIM
   and are designed to bolt up to Euro GTS mufflers. I believe they fit
   quite well.
   Hedmann used to make Pantera headers in both 2v and 4v variety, and 20
   years ago I was riding with Larry Stock when we stopped by their
   factory and he took their whole inventory. I don't know if he is still
   selling those, or if he has had them run a new batch since then?  I
   think that was the only option for true 2v headers. Rich--if that is
   what you have, they are valuable due to their rarity and quality.
   The GTS headers feature too-large primary pipes and too-small
   collectors. They give up a fair bit versus the other ones as a result.
   I have heard a handful of anecdotal stories of problems with
   Wilkinson's system, but apart from the paint burning off, the ones on
   Lori's car fit almost perfectly (one muffler is angled sideways a bit
   and the pipe could stand to be bent) and have had no longevity issues,
   after about 3000 miles (which admittedly isn't all that much).
   Mike
   Sent from my iPad
   > On Jan 7, 2019, at 14:30, Charles Engles <[5]cengles at cox.net> wrote:
   >
   > Dear Rich,
   >
   >              I don't know that there is a consensus.   IIRC, the Euro
   GTS
   > headers-exhaust were considered the best although they lost a
   reported 50
   > hp.  The Hall Big Bores have a smallish collector and lose more hp.
   I am
   > also aware of one cognoscente that finds the BB exhaust note
   unpleasant.
   > Then....came the Wilkinson headers.  Initially, they were reported to
   look
   > good, sound good and have the lowest hp loss.  For a while, they were
   the
   > ticket.   Then scattered reports of poor durability due to poor
   construction
   > were filed on Pantera message boards.
   >
   >              I have a '74 Pantera.  The euro GTS headers hit the left
   > engine mount on installation and were" fixed" in 1990 by the mechanic
   who
   > installed them with a BFH.  Years later I discovered that they
   *still* did
   > not completely clear the engine mount.     I also have a pair of Hall
   BB
   > headers on the other 74 Pantera.  The do not interfere with the
   engine
   > mounts .   Neither the GTS nor the HBB interfere with the gas tank
   shield.
   >
   >             I suppose the easiest option is to buy a set of the euro
   GTS
   > headers.  The best and most expensive option would be to have a set
   of
   > headers fabricated.  Whatever manufactured headers you buy, CHECK the
   > fitment carefully before the final exhaust gaskets and bolts are
   applied.
   >
   >
   >                                     Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
   >
   > -----Original Message-----
   > From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
   On Behalf
   > Of Larry Weston
   > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2019 8:26 AM
   > To: Rich Hoppe; [7]detomaso at detomasolist.com
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] headers
   >
   > Last experience with 2" GTS tri-wye pipe arrangement required serious
   gas
   > tank heat shield movement for clearance. Hall Big Bores not so much,
   but
   > they touched.
   > ________________________________
   > From: DeTomaso <[8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
   behalf of Rich
   > Hoppe <[9]richbhoppe at gmail.com>
   > Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2019 4:53 PM
   > To: [10]detomaso at detomasolist.com
   > Subject: [DeTomaso] headers
   >
   > I have a pair of headers for 2v heads is someone needs them.
   >
   > I need to purchase a new set for a 4v.
   >
   > Tri wye or big bore.
   > What is the consensus?
   > Thanks
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   >
   > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   > DeTomaso mailing list
   > [11]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   > [12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   >
   > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   >
   > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
   any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list messages.
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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   or approve the archiving of list messages.

References

   1. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   4. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
   5. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   6. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   7. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
   8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   9. mailto:richbhoppe at gmail.com
  10. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
  11. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

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