[DeTomaso] Cold air inlet idea

Fri Dec 6 15:36:23 EST 2019

I believe it would be a combination of factors.

1) Hot air coming under the car from the radiator; I think this is a major factor.

Confirmed when I took 2 bottles of wine in front trunk to a friend about 500km away; when I arrived both bottles were de-corked and clothes they been wrapped in ware wet and very worm!

I even have a hood grills plus most of the trip was at good speed.

2) Once this already hot air gets into the engine compartment, I do not think it just flows straight trough by the headers and up but rather circulates turbulently inside the compartment, so there is more time to take the heat from the headers.

Adding this two, I think 40-45 degree could be very realistic, especially in case one has a 180degree headers packed in the engine compartment.

Just to check I opened some of my XFI log files and was really shocked to find following data:

At the start I had Coolant temperature at 80 degree F and Intake Air at 77 degree F.

After short drive to heat up the car and test the FI I had following (measured during driving speeds on country road in range of 40-100mph) :

Coolant 179; Air 122

After another 10minutes pushing the car a bit harder keeping the rpm between 2500 and 5800 I recorded  following over 2 minutes log file:

Coolant in the range of 195 and 205 with Air in the range of 166 and 179!

Looking at this I had an increase of Air intake temperature from 77 to 179 between starting the cold car and drawing at country roads speeds! 

Please take into account that I got 180 degree headers which definitely do not help the temperature, but also that my air cleaner/intake is entirely sitting above the rear hood.

I think the matters would be much worse if the cleaner would be tucked away under the screen.

From: marshallgsmith [mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2019 9:27 AM
To: Robert Stroj; 'JFFR'; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cold air inlet idea

Am I to assume that the air warms up by 40 to 45 degrees without the scoops connected by the time it reaches the engine while driving??

That's a pretty quick warm-up of air while traveling such a short distance through the engine compartment!

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------

From: Robert Stroj <npdrs at maui.net> 

Date: 12/6/19 11:15 AM (GMT-08:00) 

To: 'JFFR' <pantera at vtc.net>, detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 

Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cold air inlet idea 

Hi, this is really interesting; reducing intake temperature by 40 degree should be significant!
Would you please mind sharing the photo of the car with scoops installed?
I would really like to find scoops similar to ones used on this GR4 car (on photo attached) as they look much more integrated compared to some of the big, "boxy" designs I seen.

-----Original Message-----
From: JFFR [mailto:pantera at vtc.net] 
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2019 7:46 AM
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cold air inlet idea

I have been using a sealed air box that is fed from small side scoops that replaced the rear side windows since 2013. A couple of years ago one of the members on this forum sent me a digital manometer and I did some testing on this system. From 10 mph up to 120 mph there was an increase in air pressure inside of the air box. It wasn't a tremendous amount, but is was definitely a positive pressure. I also attached some yarn to one of the side scoops and by just increasing the engine RPM, the yarn was pulled into the scoop. My own tests which were done using my on board EFI system monitor showed that there was a 40 to 45 degree temperature decrease in the engine inlet air temperature with the air box hoses connected vs them being disconnected. The idea of pulling air into the engine via the side gills will work, but you have to have the system sealed because of the air that is being forced up into the engine compartment from the ground underneath the car. If anyone is interested in looking at my system and testing it themselves, just contact me at the 2020 Fun Rally.

-------------- next part --------------
   I believe it would be a combination of factors.

   1) Hot air coming under the car from the radiator; I think this is a
   major factor.

   Confirmed when I took 2 bottles of wine in front trunk to a friend
   about 500km away; when I arrived both bottles were de-corked and
   clothes they been wrapped in ware wet and very worm!

   I even have a hood grills plus most of the trip was at good speed.

   2) Once this already hot air gets into the engine compartment, I do not
   think it just flows straight trough by the headers and up but rather
   circulates turbulently inside the compartment, so there is more time to
   take the heat from the headers.

   Adding this two, I think 40-45 degree could be very realistic,
   especially in case one has a 180degree headers packed in the engine
   compartment.

   Just to check I opened some of my XFI log files and was really shocked
   to find following data:

   At the start I had Coolant temperature at 80 degree F and Intake Air at
   77 degree F.

   After short drive to heat up the car and test the FI I had following
   (measured during driving speeds on country road in range of 40-100mph)
   :

   Coolant 179; Air 122

   After another 10minutes pushing the car a bit harder keeping the rpm
   between 2500 and 5800 I recorded  following over 2 minutes log file:

   Coolant in the range of 195 and 205 with Air in the range of 166 and
   179!

   Looking at this I had an increase of Air intake temperature from 77 to
   179 between starting the cold car and drawing at country roads speeds!

   Please take into account that I got 180 degree headers which definitely
   do not help the temperature, but also that my air cleaner/intake is
   entirely sitting above the rear hood.

   I think the matters would be much worse if the cleaner would be tucked
   away under the screen.

   From: marshallgsmith [mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net]
   Sent: Friday, December 06, 2019 9:27 AM
   To: Robert Stroj; 'JFFR'; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cold air inlet idea

   Am I to assume that the air warms up by 40 to 45 degrees without the
   scoops connected by the time it reaches the engine while driving??

   That's a pretty quick warm-up of air while traveling such a short
   distance through the engine compartment!

   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

   -------- Original message --------

   From: Robert Stroj <[1]npdrs at maui.net>

   Date: 12/6/19 11:15 AM (GMT-08:00)

   To: 'JFFR' <[2]pantera at vtc.net>, [3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com

   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cold air inlet idea

   Hi, this is really interesting; reducing intake temperature by 40
   degree should be significant!
   Would you please mind sharing the photo of the car with scoops
   installed?
   I would really like to find scoops similar to ones used on this GR4 car
   (on photo attached) as they look much more integrated compared to some
   of the big, "boxy" designs I seen.
   -----Original Message-----
   From: JFFR [[4]mailto:pantera at vtc.net]
   Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2019 7:46 AM
   To: [5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cold air inlet idea
   I have been using a sealed air box that is fed from small side scoops
   that replaced the rear side windows since 2013. A couple of years ago
   one of the members on this forum sent me a digital manometer and I did
   some testing on this system. From 10 mph up to 120 mph there was an
   increase in air pressure inside of the air box. It wasn't a tremendous
   amount, but is was definitely a positive pressure. I also attached some
   yarn to one of the side scoops and by just increasing the engine RPM,
   the yarn was pulled into the scoop. My own tests which were done using
   my on board EFI system monitor showed that there was a 40 to 45 degree
   temperature decrease in the engine inlet air temperature with the air
   box hoses connected vs them being disconnected. The idea of pulling air
   into the engine via the side gills will work, but you have to have the
   system sealed because of the air that is being forced up into the
   engine compartment from the ground underneath the car. If anyone is
   interested in looking at my system and testing it themselves, just
   contact me at the 2020 Fun Rally.

References

   1. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
   2. mailto:pantera at vtc.net
   3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   4. mailto:pantera at vtc.net
   5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com