[DeTomaso] Cold air inlet idea
jderyke at aol.com
jderyke at aol.com
Thu Dec 5 03:23:33 EST 2019
The NW Panteras guy that modified his decklid for glass windows a couple of years back did some air flow and temp studies in there. When I get time I'll look in the POCA Newsletter that detailed that build. I guessed that the air exiting the rear area over the decklid would be hot because a lot of it is exhaust from the radiator going under the car at higher speeds. What is added by that same air passing over the engine and headers would add more temp but no idea of how much.
In your front engine car, the critical problem is often air going thru the radiator slams into the engine swirls around under the hood, then against the firewall and is kind of dead-ended. That's one reason why a Gurney scoop in the hood- or some other kind of ducting to exhaust the air- helps quite a bit in temp control, not so much in extra power. Some production racers (McLaren?) duct the rad exhaust into both front wheel openings and leave the hood alone.
-----Original Message-----
From: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
To: jderyke <jderyke at aol.com>; richbhoppe <richbhoppe at gmail.com>; detomaso <>
Sent: Wed, Dec 4, 2019 2:37 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cold air inlet idea
Hey all and especially Jack,
I co-own a 1990 Toyota Celica Celebrity Challenge race car and I was concerned with a cold air Inlet for that engine. Where I know that race cars obviously do everything they can for a cold air inlet, is the difference in temperature truly that different in the engine compartment of the Pantera to warrant such a project? I believe at any speed above 20 mph, there's enough of a rush of air through that engine compartment that the temperature 'of' that air is negligible to that of outside air. Granted, cold air makes more horsepower. But when driving, the air in the compartment doesn't just sit there but would flow out. I can't see the temperature of the compartment air would heat so quickly that it would rob you of power and be much hotter than that of fresh air.
Am I in error here Jack? Do you know of anyone who has done comparative temperature testing of air at anything other than idle when compared to fresh air?
Marshall
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> Date: 12/4/19 2:03 PM (GMT-08:00) To: richbhoppe at gmail.com, detomaso at detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cold air inlet idea
Rich, I have not, but if you want to pursue this, I suggest making an RTV mold of your gill, making a fiberglas/Bondo duplicate, then chop that piece up to see if it's a good idea. OEM gills are quite expensive. Miuras had the same type of gills and those weren't vented either. You can borrow my mold if you'd like to try.
I suspect you'll wind up fabricating a whole new set of fins visually similar to gills, to get enough structural strength. Note this will only practically work for pre-Ls without a gas door in the left side, and that the gill is about 2" inboard of any significant air flow past them so they're likely to still be decorative only. In the '80s, the Swedes found that small scoops at that point flowed OUT of the engine bay at speeds below about 120 mph. Elephant- ear scoops were necessary to reverse the natural airflow.
My 2¢- J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Hoppe <richbhoppe at gmail.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 4, 2019 1:42 pm
Subject: [DeTomaso] Cold air inlet idea
Just curious if anyone has tried to cut slots in the side grill then
slots in body behind Grill then hole in inner panel to install a cold
air tube to air cleaner.
I know kind of an out of the box idea but I don't think the slots in
the Grill would affect the look of the car as much as the scoops.
HasA anyone been successful cutting the side Grills without breaking
them?
thanks Rich
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-------------- next part --------------
The NW Panteras guy that modified his decklid for glass windows a
couple of years back did some air flow and temp studies in there. When
I get time I'll look in the POCA Newsletter that detailed that build. I
guessed that the air exiting the rear area over the decklid would be
hot because a lot of it is exhaust from the radiator going under the
car at higher speeds. What is added by that same air passing over the
engine and headers would add more temp but no idea of how much.
In your front engine car, the critical problem is often air going thru
the radiator slams into the engine swirls around under the hood, then
against the firewall and is kind of dead-ended. That's one reason why a
Gurney scoop in the hood- or some other kind of ducting to exhaust the
air- helps quite a bit in temp control, not so much in extra power.
Some production racers (McLaren?) duct the rad exhaust into both front
wheel openings and leave the hood alone.
-----Original Message-----
From: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
To: jderyke <jderyke at aol.com>; richbhoppe <richbhoppe at gmail.com>;
detomaso <>
Sent: Wed, Dec 4, 2019 2:37 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cold air inlet idea
Hey all and especially Jack,
I co-own a 1990 Toyota Celica Celebrity Challenge race car and I was
concerned with a cold air Inlet for that engine. Where I know that race
cars obviously do everything they can for a cold air inlet, is the
difference in temperature truly that different in the engine
compartment of the Pantera to warrant such a project? I believe at any
speed above 20 mph, there's enough of a rush of air through that engine
compartment that the temperature 'of' that air is negligible to that of
outside air. Granted, cold air makes more horsepower. But when driving,
the air in the compartment doesn't just sit there but would flow out. I
can't see the temperature of the compartment air would heat so quickly
that it would rob you of power and be much hotter than that of fresh
air.
Am I in error here Jack? Do you know of anyone who has done comparative
temperature testing of air at anything other than idle when compared to
fresh air?
Marshall
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 12/4/19 2:03 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: richbhoppe at gmail.com, detomaso at detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cold air inlet idea
Rich, I have not, but if you want to pursue this, I suggest making an
RTV mold of your gill, making a fiberglas/Bondo duplicate, then chop
that piece up to see if it's a good idea. OEM gills are quite
expensive. Miuras had the same type of gills and those weren't vented
either. You can borrow my mold if you'd like to try.
I suspect you'll wind up fabricating a whole new set of fins visually
similar to gills, to get enough structural strength. Note this will
only practically work for pre-Ls without a gas door in the left side,
and that the gill is about 2" inboard of any significant air flow past
them so they're likely to still be decorative only. In the '80s, the
Swedes found that small scoops at that point flowed OUT of the engine
bay at speeds below about 120 mph. Elephant- ear scoops were necessary
to reverse the natural airflow.
My 2A-c-- J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Hoppe <richbhoppe at gmail.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 4, 2019 1:42 pm
Subject: [DeTomaso] Cold air inlet idea
Just curious if anyone has tried to cut slots in the side grill then
slots in body behind Grill then hole in inner panel to install a cold
air tube to air cleaner.
I know kind of an out of the box idea but I don't think the slots in
the Grill would affect the look of the car as much as the scoops.
HasA anyone been successful cutting the side Grills without breaking
them?
thanks Rich
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
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http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
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