[DeTomaso] Engine Questions
B Hower
b.hower3400 at yahoo.com
Fri Apr 5 07:45:28 EDT 2019
I agree with ASA, I also prefer the simple style.
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )
On Thursday, April 4, 2019, 10:43:18 PM CDT, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com> wrote:
My 1973 L, which I purchased from the estate of the original owner, had
that first style (long bar across entire front cover). Earlier models
I imagine did not. The front cover had never been removed, so I don't
imagine it had been replaced.
My preference is for the earlier, more simple, style.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
Spokane County ARES-RACES EC/RO
******************************
[1]http://w7tsc.org
[2]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
On 4/4/2019 11:35, Julian Kift wrote:
Mike,
It's not that first style.
One can also support Tim Meyer and get a fancy billet one in the color
of your choice for less than the big boys want for a pressed steel
repop;
[1][3]https://www.tmeyerinc.com/product/aeroflow-billet-timing-pointer-cle
veland/
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Drew [4]<MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2019 11:19 AM
To: Julian Kift
Cc: Richard Greenblum; detomaso
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine Questions
All,
Here is one kind of stock timing pointer, available used here.
[2][5]https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/store/p/15454-Timing-Pointer-3
51C-Used-1973-Mercury-Cougar-/-1973-Ford-Mustang.html
Miloden makes a 351C-specific pointer:
[3][6]https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-65783
CJ Pony Parts sells a Ford-style 351C pointer too:
[4][7]https://www.cjponyparts.com/engine-timing-pointer-351c-1970-1974/p/H
W3106/
I can't remember which kind of 351C pointer the Pantera used but I
imagine either would work.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 4, 2019, at 10:33, Julian Kift [8]<[5]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
wrote:
You might consider a billet steel flywheel, which will be somewhere
between the aluminum and stock for rotating mass.
There are any number of aftermarket water pumps available with
increased flow, some have the bypass some do not and I do not recall
which currently, maybe you have that figured out only quoting
Flowkooler and Edelbrock? Without the bypass the correct 351C
thermostat with the hat and block off are redundant as no bypass can
occur.
Scott at SACC Restorations also sells a water pump overdrive pulley
that will increase flow by a further 11%.
I have heard good feedback on the Kevko oil pan, basically the same
design and used to be about half the price of Aviaid or Armando, but in
looking I see they are now $355 and you have to purchase the pickup
separate for an additional $60.
[6][9]https://kevkoracing.com/products/part-f602-400-m-ford-pantera-pan
FYI Aviaid/Armando Pantera pans no longer have an oil temperature bung
standard, so if you want that capability be sure to call it out on
ordering.
Stock 351C timing pointers were almost unobtainium for a while with
only used ones occasionally coming up on eBay and selling for inflated
prices, but I thought someone tooled up and is making them again? I
don't believe they are Pantera specific, the crank pulley however is.
When you do get a pointer don't rely on it and the harmonic balancer
lining up at the mark when the engine is at TDC, do a physical check
and if necessary re-mark or adjust the pointer. Taking the time to mark
up the flywheel is also a time saver allowing checking timing via the
hole in the ZF bellhousing.
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso [10]<[7]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
of Mike Drew via DeTomaso [11]<[8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2019 9:43 AM
To: Richard Greenblum
Cc: detomaso
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine Questions
> On Apr 4, 2019, at 09:24, Richard Greenblum
[12]<[9]richard at richardgreenblum.com> wrote:
>
> I'm at it with questions again...are 351C flywheels 164 tooth?
>>>Yes.
If you use a Fidanza flywheel they don't countersink the pressure plate
mounting bolts properly. That takes a few minutes with a drill press to
resolve.
I have a Fidanza flywheel on my striker and it's great but there are
definite trade offs. It lurches and bucks in traffic requiring clutch
slipping. Simply not enough flywheel effect. If you are going to spend
much time at low speeds or in traffic you might be happier with a stock
flywheel. Plus you already have one so there is a cost savings there.
>
>
> > I'd like to know your experience/opinions on:
>
>
> Water Pumps--Flowkooler vs. Edelbrock
>>>Both are fine. Flowkooler made in China, Edelbrock 100% US made in
Torrance CA. I use Edelbrock.
>
> > Oil Pans--Aviaid vs. Armando (Mike explained they're basically the
same
> with Armando having come from Aviaid, but I thought there was some
> concern with the pan rails on Aramandos at one time)
>>>They are identical. Both have issues because they start off using
cheap Chinese stock pans as cores, then cut them apart to customize
them.
>
>
> > Does anyone have a stock timing pointer they're willing to sell,
or is
> this a prayer at a junkyard item? Trying to avoid having to take
it
> off the engine in the car...
>
> >>>I believe, but am not sure, that the Pantera pointer is
Pantera-specific? Others would know far more than I would about that.
Mike
>
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References
1. [15]https://www.tmeyerinc.com/product/aeroflow-billet-timing-pointer-cleve
land/
2. [16]https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/store/p/15454-Timing-Pointer-351
C-Used-1973-Mercury-Cougar-/-1973-Ford-Mustang.html
3. [17]https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-65783
4. [18]https://www.cjponyparts.com/engine-timing-pointer-351c-1970-1974/p/HW3
106/
5. [19]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
6. [20]https://kevkoracing.com/products/part-f602-400-m-ford-pantera-pan
7. [21]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
8. [22]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
9. [23]mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com
10. [24]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
11. [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message p
osted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant
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t messages.
References
1. http://w7tsc.org/
2. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
3. https://www.tmeyerinc.com/product/aeroflow-billet-timing-pointer-cle
4. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
5. https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/store/p/15454-Timing-Pointer-3
6. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-65783
7. https://www.cjponyparts.com/engine-timing-pointer-351c-1970-1974/p/H
8. mailto:[5]julian_kift at hotmail.com
9. https://kevkoracing.com/products/part-f602-400-m-ford-pantera-pan
10. mailto:[7]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
11. mailto:[8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. mailto:[9]richard at richardgreenblum.com
13. mailto:10]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
15. https://www.tmeyerinc.com/product/aeroflow-billet-timing-pointer-cleveland/
16. https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/store/p/15454-Timing-Pointer-351C-Used-1973-Mercury-Cougar-/-1973-Ford-Mustang.html
17. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-65783
18. https://www.cjponyparts.com/engine-timing-pointer-351c-1970-1974/p/HW3106/
19. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
20. https://kevkoracing.com/products/part-f602-400-m-ford-pantera-pan
21. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
22. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
23. mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com
24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
26. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
27. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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-------------- next part --------------
I agree with ASA, I also prefer the simple style.
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
! )
On Thursday, April 4, 2019, 10:43:18 PM CDT, Asa Jay Laughton
<asajay at asajay.com> wrote:
My 1973 L, which I purchased from the estate of the original owner,
had
that first style (long bar across entire front cover). Earlier
models
I imagine did not. The front cover had never been removed, so I
don't
imagine it had been replaced.
My preference is for the earlier, more simple, style.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
Spokane County ARES-RACES EC/RO
******************************
[1][1]http://w7tsc.org
[2][2]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
On 4/4/2019 11:35, Julian Kift wrote:
Mike,
It's not that first style.
One can also support Tim Meyer and get a fancy billet one in the
color
of your choice for less than the big boys want for a pressed steel
repop;
[1][3][3]https://www.tmeyerinc.com/product/aeroflow-billet-timing-point
er-cle
veland/
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Drew [4]<[4]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2019 11:19 AM
To: Julian Kift
Cc: Richard Greenblum; detomaso
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine Questions
All,
Here is one kind of stock timing pointer, available used here.
[2][5][5]https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/store/p/15454-Timing-Poi
nter-3
51C-Used-1973-Mercury-Cougar-/-1973-Ford-Mustang.html
Miloden makes a 351C-specific pointer:
[3][6][6]https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-65783
CJ Pony Parts sells a Ford-style 351C pointer too:
[4][7][7]https://www.cjponyparts.com/engine-timing-pointer-351c-1970-19
74/p/H
W3106/
I can't remember which kind of 351C pointer the Pantera used but I
imagine either would work.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 4, 2019, at 10:33, Julian Kift
[8]<[5][8]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
wrote:
You might consider a billet steel flywheel, which will be somewhere
between the aluminum and stock for rotating mass.
There are any number of aftermarket water pumps available with
increased flow, some have the bypass some do not and I do not recall
which currently, maybe you have that figured out only quoting
Flowkooler and Edelbrock? Without the bypass the correct 351C
thermostat with the hat and block off are redundant as no bypass can
occur.
Scott at SACC Restorations also sells a water pump overdrive pulley
that will increase flow by a further 11%.
I have heard good feedback on the Kevko oil pan, basically the same
design and used to be about half the price of Aviaid or Armando, but
in
looking I see they are now $355 and you have to purchase the pickup
separate for an additional $60.
[6][9][9]https://kevkoracing.com/products/part-f602-400-m-ford-pantera-
pan
FYI Aviaid/Armando Pantera pans no longer have an oil temperature
bung
standard, so if you want that capability be sure to call it out on
ordering.
Stock 351C timing pointers were almost unobtainium for a while with
only used ones occasionally coming up on eBay and selling for
inflated
prices, but I thought someone tooled up and is making them again? I
don't believe they are Pantera specific, the crank pulley however is.
When you do get a pointer don't rely on it and the harmonic balancer
lining up at the mark when the engine is at TDC, do a physical check
and if necessary re-mark or adjust the pointer. Taking the time to
mark
up the flywheel is also a time saver allowing checking timing via the
hole in the ZF bellhousing.
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso [10]<[7][10]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
on behalf
of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
[11]<[8][11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2019 9:43 AM
To: Richard Greenblum
Cc: detomaso
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine Questions
> On Apr 4, 2019, at 09:24, Richard Greenblum
[12]<[9][12]richard at richardgreenblum.com> wrote:
>
> I'm at it with questions again...are 351C flywheels 164 tooth?
>>>Yes.
If you use a Fidanza flywheel they don't countersink the pressure
plate
mounting bolts properly. That takes a few minutes with a drill press
to
resolve.
I have a Fidanza flywheel on my striker and it's great but there are
definite trade offs. It lurches and bucks in traffic requiring clutch
slipping. Simply not enough flywheel effect. If you are going to
spend
much time at low speeds or in traffic you might be happier with a
stock
flywheel. Plus you already have one so there is a cost savings there.
>
>
> > I'd like to know your experience/opinions on:
>
>
> Water Pumps--Flowkooler vs. Edelbrock
>>>Both are fine. Flowkooler made in China, Edelbrock 100% US made in
Torrance CA. I use Edelbrock.
>
> > Oil Pans--Aviaid vs. Armando (Mike explained they're basically
the
same
> with Armando having come from Aviaid, but I thought there was some
> concern with the pan rails on Aramandos at one time)
>>>They are identical. Both have issues because they start off using
cheap Chinese stock pans as cores, then cut them apart to customize
them.
>
>
> > Does anyone have a stock timing pointer they're willing to sell,
or is
> this a prayer at a junkyard item? Trying to avoid having to take
it
> off the engine in the car...
>
> >>>I believe, but am not sure, that the Pantera pointer is
Pantera-specific? Others would know far more than I would about
that.
Mike
>
_______________________________________________
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Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1.
[15][15]https://www.tmeyerinc.com/product/aeroflow-billet-timing-pointe
r-cleve
land/
2.
[16][16]https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/store/p/15454-Timing-Poin
ter-351
C-Used-1973-Mercury-Cougar-/-1973-Ford-Mustang.html
3. [17][17]https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-65783
4.
[18][18]https://www.cjponyparts.com/engine-timing-pointer-351c-1970-197
4/p/HW3
106/
5. [19]mailto:[19]julian_kift at hotmail.com
6.
[20][20]https://kevkoracing.com/products/part-f602-400-m-ford-pantera-p
an
7. [21]mailto:[21]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
8. [22]mailto:[22]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
9. [23]mailto:[23]richard at richardgreenblum.com
10. [24]mailto:[24]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
11. [25][25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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nks above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message p
osted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They
also grant
the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the
archiving of lis
t messages.
References
1. [28]http://w7tsc.org/
2. [29]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
3.
[30]https://www.tmeyerinc.com/product/aeroflow-billet-timing-pointer-cl
e
4. mailto:[31]MikeLDrew at aol.com
5.
[32]https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/store/p/15454-Timing-Pointer-
3
6. [33]https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-65783
7.
[34]https://www.cjponyparts.com/engine-timing-pointer-351c-1970-1974/p/
H
8. mailto:[5][35]julian_kift at hotmail.com
9.
[36]https://kevkoracing.com/products/part-f602-400-m-ford-pantera-pan
10. mailto:[7][37]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
11. mailto:[8][38]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. mailto:[9][39]richard at richardgreenblum.com
13. mailto:10][40]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. [41]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
15.
[42]https://www.tmeyerinc.com/product/aeroflow-billet-timing-pointer-cl
eveland/
16.
[43]https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/store/p/15454-Timing-Pointer-
351C-Used-1973-Mercury-Cougar-/-1973-Ford-Mustang.html
17. [44]https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-65783
18.
[45]https://www.cjponyparts.com/engine-timing-pointer-351c-1970-1974/p/
HW3106/
19. mailto:[46]julian_kift at hotmail.com
20.
[47]https://kevkoracing.com/products/part-f602-400-m-ford-pantera-pan
21. mailto:[48]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
22. mailto:[49]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
23. mailto:[50]richard at richardgreenblum.com
24. mailto:[51]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
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References
1. http://w7tsc.org/
2. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
3. https://www.tmeyerinc.com/product/aeroflow-billet-timing-pointer-cle
4. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
5. https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/store/p/15454-Timing-Pointer-3
6. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-65783
7. https://www.cjponyparts.com/engine-timing-pointer-351c-1970-1974/p/H
8. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
9. https://kevkoracing.com/products/part-f602-400-m-ford-pantera-pan
10. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com
13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
15. https://www.tmeyerinc.com/product/aeroflow-billet-timing-pointer-cleve
16. https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/store/p/15454-Timing-Pointer-351
17. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-65783
18. https://www.cjponyparts.com/engine-timing-pointer-351c-1970-1974/p/HW3
19. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
20. https://kevkoracing.com/products/part-f602-400-m-ford-pantera-pan
21. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
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28. http://w7tsc.org/
29. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
30. https://www.tmeyerinc.com/product/aeroflow-billet-timing-pointer-cle
31. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
32. https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/store/p/15454-Timing-Pointer-3
33. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-65783
34. https://www.cjponyparts.com/engine-timing-pointer-351c-1970-1974/p/H
35. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
36. https://kevkoracing.com/products/part-f602-400-m-ford-pantera-pan
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42. https://www.tmeyerinc.com/product/aeroflow-billet-timing-pointer-cleveland/
43. https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/store/p/15454-Timing-Pointer-351C-Used-1973-Mercury-Cougar-/-1973-Ford-Mustang.html
44. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-65783
45. https://www.cjponyparts.com/engine-timing-pointer-351c-1970-1974/p/HW3106/
46. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
47. https://kevkoracing.com/products/part-f602-400-m-ford-pantera-pan
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